# San Jose CA gun tax law is a positive first step to rational gun ownership **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433 "2021-07-01T15:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/361 "2022-02-17T22:03:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What more would you like me to concede to? If I go to the gun store, I can use my CCW as proof that I am not a criminal. And then you can go out into the parking lot and sell that newly acquired gun to a criminal. The only way the law could possibly get you for that is if you admitted that you sold it to them knowing that they were prohibited from owning it. > [@UltraVires](#): > > But many arguments are pretty much “nobody is a criminal until they are” so that must mean no guns for anyone…or only shotguns but not repeating shotguns, or some other position you have that you tell me is not a complete gun ban. Yada yada yada, more strawman. See why I don’t see how you have anything to contribute to the conversation anymore? Tell me how I can prevent you from selling your gun to a criminal, and then having no consequence by either claiming that you didn’t know they were a criminal, or just claiming that someone must have “stolen” it, and then we can start working from there. Otherwise, you are just advocating making it easier for criminals and the irresponsible to have guns. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/362 "2022-02-17T22:06:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Of course higher because of prohibition. Higher because of prohibition, or higher because you could buy a submachinegun out of the Sear’s catalogue? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/363 "2022-02-17T22:12:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Tell me how I can prevent you from selling your gun to a criminal, and then having no consequence by either claiming that you didn’t know they were a criminal, or just claiming that someone must have “stolen” it, and then we can start working from there. You enforce it like any other law. I lost it? When? Where? You didn’t report the loss of a valuable item of personal property? You just sold it to a stranger? But didn’t he grow up in your hometown? Everyone’s lies get them convicted. But would you tell me what your solution is? You claim that you do not want to ban guns, that I am improperly accusing you of that. But what will solve the issue you are describing if not current law or just prohibiting everyone from buying guns…e.g. a gun ban. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/364 "2022-02-17T22:13:03Z")
You think Al Capone was able to get machine guns because they were legal? He peddled booze which was illegal. You think a law would have stopped him? That’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/365 "2022-02-17T22:17:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You think Al Capone was able to get machine guns because they were legal? He peddled booze which was illegal. You think a law would have stopped him? That’s silly. > [@UltraVires](#): > > I support the current laws outlawing criminals and young children from having guns (without parental permission for the children). Do laws work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals or not? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/366 "2022-02-17T22:18:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Do laws work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals or not? Of course not. By definition they don’t obey laws. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/367 "2022-02-17T22:21:46Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Of course not. By definition they don’t obey laws. Then the only way to curb gun violence is to get rid of the guns, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/368 "2022-02-17T22:23:26Z")
But you wouldn’t. You can make them illegal, but the criminals, who by definition don’t abide by the law, will be the only ones owning them. It’s trite, but true. Have drug laws stopped the use of drugs? If not, then why would any law against guns, which each of them lasts for generations, be more successful? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/369 "2022-02-17T22:24:01Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But you wouldn’t. You can make them illegal, but the criminals, who by definition don’t abide by the law, will be the only ones owning them. Criminals can’t get guns that don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/370 "2022-02-17T22:27:31Z")
They already exist. I own a gun manufactured in 1911 owned by my great-great grandfather. It fires the same as the day it came out of the box. I believe that there are 500 million guns in the US. Even if you wanted, how to you destroy all of them? Yes, I would probably comply with the law and turn mine in. Would Adam Lanza or inner city criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/371 "2022-02-17T22:39:24Z")
No, but when a criminal (“inner city” or otherwise) gets arrested with a gun - you destroy the gun. Since it’s no longer legal to sell guns, there’s going to be a massive reduction in the number of guns being manufactured, so while you’re removing guns from the environment, you’re not constantly adding more. Eventually, you get to the point where there are very few guns extant in the country, making it hard for anyone, criminals included, to get their hands on them. Sure, it’ll be hard, and take a long time, but it’s hardly impossible. We eliminated smallpox, and smallpox actively makes more of itself. We could absolutely get rid of the guns in this country if we had the will to do it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/372 "2022-02-17T22:54:44Z")
I think that would take about 200 years, being realistic. It also doesn’t take into account 3D printing technology. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/373 "2022-02-17T23:07:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I think that would take about 200 years, being realistic. I think we could do it in about half that time, maybe faster. It’ll get easier as more and more of the adult population is made up of people who didn’t grow up with the idea that guns are some sort of natural right. But like you say, laws aren’t going to do anything to fix the problem, so what other solution is there? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/374 "2022-02-18T00:37:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > See? This is what I am saying. Any attempt at doing anything about mitigating the damage done by guns to our society is automatically labeled as banning guns. > > I don’t see in that post where Miller says he wants to ban guns, but you use it as an example of someone who wants to ban guns. Why would you want to repeal the 2nd Ad otherwise? Miller made it very clear that he wants to ban handguns. At least. > [@Miller](#): > > We could absolutely get rid of the guns in this country if we had the will to do it. And this new San Jose law is the PERFECT example. On the surface it appears just saying you need to pay a modest tax and get liability insurance. But if you don’t comply we confiscate the guns. The kicker is that not only is that one special rider insurance not available, _it is actually illegal under State Law._ Which means that you **can’t** buy the insurance, which means this is a gun ban. And it is the gun banning crowd, that is the cause of the uSA not having sane, reasonable gun laws: The current reactionary anti-gun control NRA came about because of gun banners. Look at Heller. SCOTUS was forced to act to defend the 2nd Ad- which is you see all the "denied’ cases brought to them, you can tell they did not want to touch gun control. But three cities passed stupid and useless handgun/ gun bans- and the DC one went to SCOTUS. All those bans were pointless, and even Chicago has said as much, since they constantly (and with some justification) have complained that state and local gun control guns laws don’t work as people buy them elsewhere and bring them in. So Chicago had to know that a city-wide handgun ban was useless- yet they passed it anyway. And SF? CA state has made it clear that only the state can pass gun control laws, yet they tried anyway. Look at nationwide Gun Registration. True, Law Enforcement isn’t excited about the idea, as it really will only rarely be of help- and they have the federal gun forms anyway. But normal, everyday honest law abiding gun owners don;t want it, as they (justifiably) fear it will be used for Gun confiscation. If people would stop trying to ban guns- which scares the normal, everyday honest law abiding gun owner- we could have some sane, useful gun laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. So, it is the _gun banners_ who are the reason for all the “gun violence” in America. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/375 "2022-02-18T00:42:01Z")
Ok you’re right. There is no reasonable gun law. They all lead to banning. And anyone who thinks otherwise is directly the real cause of gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/376 "2022-02-18T00:46:48Z")
Don’t be ridiculous . On this board I have openly proposed several. In general I am Okay with Bidens proposals. Plenty of room for reasonable laws, as long as the gun banners will shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/377 "2022-02-18T00:48:39Z")
Oh I’m sure as soon as anything comes up for legislation you’ll discover how it leads to ban of all guns. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/378 "2022-02-18T01:02:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But three cities passed stupid and useless handgun/ gun bans- and the DC one went to SCOTUS. Yeah, people are saying that we are crazy that nobody wants to ban guns, but Heller was exactly about a gun ban. So was McDonald. And AR-15s? Ban them. Maybe you can be like Australia and keep an old rifle. We still have not heard what the “modest proposal” is. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/379 "2022-02-18T01:04:54Z")
Would you be willing to put forth your “compromise” that isn’t a gun ban, that won’t be good for this year only and want more next year? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/380 "2022-02-18T01:05:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And it is the gun banning crowd, that is the cause of the uSA not having sane, reasonable gun laws: The current reactionary anti-gun control NRA came about because of gun banners. Actually, I’ve only relatively recently arrived at my current position on guns, largely because of my frustrations with the pro-gun lobby, and gun owners in general. Up until 2016 or so, I thought Democrats should back off of gun control. I’d be a lot more moderate in my gun control views, if the pro gun side had shown just a little reasonableness over the subject. > [@DrDeth](#): > > …we could have some sane, useful gun laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. UltraVires has maintained that gun control laws don’t work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. And he’s a lawyer, so he should know about that sort of thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433.md?page=20)