# San Jose CA gun tax law is a positive first step to rational gun ownership **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433 "2021-07-01T15:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/81 "2021-07-06T10:11:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It’s funny how the Supreme Court allows all sorts of restrictions on abortion, a constitutionally protected practice, yet seems shy about restrictions on guns. This is just patently untrue. The non-textual “constitutional right” to abortion is jealously guarded with even left leaning legal commentators observing that very minimal regulations against abortion are struck down such that would be upheld by equivalent regulations against the press or speech. Contrast that with the Second Amendment. It wasn’t even recognized until 2008 and there are a myriad of restrictions on personal gun ownership that if the equivalent was done for abortion would be enjoined in a hot minute. I think your example is very poor. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/82 "2021-07-06T10:32:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > My objection is that any agreement with that, even a 2 cent tax, is conceding the false equivalence between gun ownership and gun violence. Sorry for the triple post. But it goes further than this. You think Jimmy the Gangbanger three streets over is paying his $200, $2, or 2 cent gun tax? You think he registered his gun, or responded to his red flag law summons last week? You think he underwent a background check when he bought it behind the crack house? Did he buy a CA compliant 10 round magazine instead of the dreaded 15 round mag? Did he go to the sheriff to get a may issue concealed carry license when he tucks it in his shorts? Of course not. And these laws just don’t harm upper middle class white folks like me. They harm poor black people, good hard working people, who have to live next to Jimmy. He has better access to guns than they do because they want to follow the law. If I could understand how that is reasonable in any way, I might be able to get on board with some of these proposals. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/83 "2021-07-06T12:39:55Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > They harm poor black people, good hard working people, who have to live next to Jimmy. He has better access to guns than they do because they want to follow the law. Your posts’ logic is a bit far afield. Something like; ‘Those who rob banks have greater access to money than those who follow the law’. Perhaps so. The underlying issue is not access to weapons. It is whether some controls on gun ownership will increase citizens quality of life (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/84 "2021-07-06T13:02:43Z")
These threads always turn into shitshows of the same debates, but tell me how law “X” will keep guns out of the hands of Jimmy and help his poor, hardworking neighbors. Or, as I am not the master of your complaint, how it will help people in general to pass these laws. I genuinely do not understand, so, if you would, explain it to me like I am 10 years old. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/85 "2021-07-06T13:17:39Z")
Let me try, and very likely fail to reset this debate. It is definitely a cultural thing, and I have a single perspective that is different from “you” city people. Almost everyone I know owns guns. Hunting rifles, pistols, shotguns. They don’t do any societal harm. Assholes in my county do. Some of them become my clients. And it’s not a racial thing as the overwhelming number of people in my county and the criminals are white. So maybe we can keep that out of this thread. So from my perspective, and I welcome other perspectives and in fact it is my invitation, why are the _guns_ themselves the issue? Perhaps this can reset the debate…but probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/86 "2021-07-06T14:03:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > why are the _guns_ themselves the issue? Because some guns are used by some people within our national society for destructive purposes. Guns are the instruments of destruction. Since we are a nation of laws, the solution to destructive acts is to control them by enacting laws. The solution lies with responsible gun owning citizens defining the rules for gun ownership. It is gun owners who know what is rational for pursuit of their legal activities. They can define the rules appropriate for hunting, target shooting and self defense and reasonable laws can be based on those rules. Consideration of the San Jose tax law could open that discussion. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/87 "2021-07-06T14:19:18Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Guns are the instruments of destruction. Why is that important? If some drug dealer beat his rival to death with a baseball bat, should the local Little League team pay up? Why is the instrument the thing instead of the evil mind? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/88 "2021-07-06T14:24:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why is the instrument the thing instead of the evil mind? Guns are the instrument of destruction, laws are the instrument for control of the minds that misuse them. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/89 "2021-07-06T14:29:40Z")
I get what you are getting at. I can buy an AR-15 with ten 30 round mags and I just use it for amusement and plinking. But that same law allows the evil guy in the next town to buy an AR-15 with ten 30 round mags to shoot up a parade. Is that fair? But my response is that the AR-15 or the mags are not the problem. It’s the evil mind of the guy in the next town. He would be a bad neighbor otherwise. Let’s solve that problem instead of bandaid solutions. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/90 "2021-07-06T14:34:13Z")
The press. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/91 "2021-07-06T14:54:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I can buy an AR-15 with ten 30 round mags and I just use it for amusement and plinking. That is true of all destructive items. One need not use them. Actually plinking is far more amusing and fun with the flame thrower they use at Fish and Wildlife for controlled burns. Is plinking the justification for 30 round mag AR-15s being necessary in our society? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/92 "2021-07-06T15:06:50Z")
I’m trying to have this not go down the roads of other threads. Let’s assume that AR-15s are wholly unnecessary and just trinkets for my redneck amusement. Why should I have to pay because the guy in the next neighborhood intentionally shoots people with his personally owned AR-15? I didn’t do that. This AR-15 over there leaning against the wall didn’t do that. How does my “insurance” or “tax” on that gun, sitting against the wall doing nothing, help the victims of other violence intentionally committed by not me? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/93 "2021-07-06T15:15:35Z")
To follow up: I would understand your proposal if the items themselves were intrinsically dangerous. I love being redneck in a redneckingly way, but they sometimes fly out the door and kill a few people on the street by self-exploding. Yeah, I should have to pay for that little hobby of mine or maybe society should deem it illegal. But that’s not this thing. I shouldn’t have to pay for others _intentionally_ and _criminally misusing_ this inanimate object which just happens to be protected by the United States Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/94 "2021-07-06T15:20:51Z")
Another triple post and apologies. This is not like car insurance. Most of us drive cars. We all think we are wonderful drivers. My wife thinks she is a wonderful driver (hint: she’s wrong) but for some reason all of us wonderful drivers have a bunch of accidents because we are driving two ton machines at high speeds and talking to passengers and worrying about life and we fuck up because we really aren’t right about how great of a driver we really are. That is negligence and it happens all of the time. This is not at all what people who advocate for “gun insurance” are doing for the reasons stated above. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/95 "2021-07-06T15:28:26Z")
I also pay car insurance to protect me if my car gets stolen. I pay house insurance so that if the delivery driver trips on the steps dropping off my Amazon package, I’m covered. I pay business insurance just in case one of my placements acts in an irresponsible manner. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/96 "2021-07-06T15:46:27Z")
So, you’re proposing that required gun insurance should provide a new gun to the gun owner if theirs gets stolen, pays for any damages due to accidental discharge or purposeful miss use by a third party. That seems reasonable. It would allow gun owners the freedom from worry about their weapons being misused and since all of these things really happen the insurance would be dirt cheap. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/97 "2021-07-06T16:03:38Z")
Can we try and stay on the San Jose law? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/98 "2021-07-06T16:08:06Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > It would allow gun owners the freedom from worry about their weapons being misused and since all of these things really happen the insurance would be dirt cheap. I meant rarely not really. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/99 "2021-07-06T16:09:03Z")
Sure. But if you ram your car deliberately into some protestors, you are not covered. If you car gets stolen, and used in a crime, your insurance does not have to pay out to the victims of that crime. It will cover you to the damages to the car. If you set a bear trap to maim the delivery driver, your insurance does not cover you. My homeowners insurance does cover me for most lawful or accidental uses of a firearm. And pretty much all homeowners and many renters have that. But insurance to cover me if i deliberately murder someone is non-existant. You can not buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/100 "2021-07-06T16:21:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But insurance to cover me if i deliberately murder someone is non-existant. That’s an unlikely case. Most people plead self defense and that is covered by [insurance.](https://r.search.yahoo.com/cbclk2/dWU9OTM1RDA0MjgxNDYxNDk4NiZ1dD0xNjI1NTg4MTUyMzQwJnVvPTgzNTYyOTc1MTczOTg1Jmx0PTImcz0xJmVzPUJseVAuRGNHUFNfSExONm0xaUZyNzR0U0Z5Y0JBNFp6RGJrNXZOM19WR19PWTRnQw--/RV=2/RE=1625616952/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.bing.com%2faclick%3fld%3de8hkslH-44Nh-ViYGV8XVtdzVUCUx9tWiz2n6yL5LvbYL6DZNnNO0AzUlxbvfiBTcsD9GghssRWnHY5zbvwNXk0RKiPYtqkUW7i3d3u5t4hsM7N5cf-1J2ylXX01lT_s_uLI3zkpUiFh-GQk3_UNmyoAPVNjx0ddlzGoA8-nCxmHhWRy4k8dpo6Dxt0veoojn1vgcXeA%26u%3daHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZscC51c2xhd3NoaWVsZC5jb20lMmZtZW1iZXItc2lnbi11cC01JTJmJTNmbXNjbGtpZCUzZGFlNWQ0OGNhZmNjZjEwZDkwOWQ0MjgyZTdkNzdmOGJm%26rlid%3dae5d48cafccf10d909d4282e7d77f8bf/RK=2/RS=hM6Q61a6H_ORq8JttI2pIwuL.Rg-;_ylt=Awr9Imy4geRgOwsAPU1XNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA292LXRvcA--;_ylc=X3IDMgRydAMw?IG=0afd226ccf274839a600000000ded1fd) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433.md?page=6)