# Sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007 "2022-02-23T14:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/181 "2022-02-28T20:45:33Z")
Russia has now threatened Canada because [some protesters showed up at the embassy in Ottawa.](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/russia-threatens-retaliation-after-hostile-ottawa-protest-in-support-of-ukraine) > After hundreds of protesters gathered outside the Russian Embassy in Ottawa on Sunday to show their support for Ukraine, Russia’s foreign ministry demanded that Canada keep its diplomats safe — and threatened retaliation if they failed to do so. I note for the record that these protesters were not blocking streets with trucks, were not blasting horns, and left after they had indicated that they were not happy with Russia invading Ukraine. To be blunt, Russia can pound sand. I’m sure that the Russians in the embassy are not used to seeing people disagree with them. Tough shit, snowflakes. I think that Canada should tell Russia that they have noted that their embassy staff don’t like protests, so they are free to leave. In fact, several high ranking staff at the embassy should be told that they WILL NOW LEAVE, as they are being sent back to Russia. Goodbye, and fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/182 "2022-02-28T20:47:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In fact, several high ranking staff at the embassy should be told that they WILL NOW LEAVE, as they are being sent back to Russia. Goodbye, and fuck off. Countries all over the world should do this right now. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/183 "2022-02-28T20:57:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > But part of it is that the two situations aren’t analogous, and the US worked within the system (via the UN) while Russia…hasn’t and didn’t. And there’s also the factor that, certain fringe groups aside, no one really believed that the US was going to annex Iraq, or install a permanent puppet government that would have the same practical effect as permanent annexation. With Russia and Ukraine, there’s very little confidence in Russia’s ultimate goal. If Russia is left unchecked, the Ukrainians face repression under a puppet government at best, and repression under direct Russian rule as a distinct possibility. As screwed up as US “nation-building” efforts might have been, they were at least sincere in wanting Iraq to be able to stand on its own as a modern nation. Putin has no such desire. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/184 "2022-02-28T21:02:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Oh, well this is nice. Putin has agreed to stop committing war crimes. Oh, sure, they won’t 'target" them. “But Comrade Putin, what about all that shelling of cites we’re doing?” “Those are just being fired at random!” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/185 "2022-02-28T21:23:26Z")
> [@XT](#): > > …I get what you are saying, and I doubt anyone here thinks Iraq was a good idea. But you are really avoiding the key differences that make Ukraine completely unlike Iraq… Yeah - I’m flogging a well-dead horse. But every imperialist nation thinks that THEIR situation is different from the bad guys’. And we haven’t even mentioned Afghanistan. 😃 Puppet government/regime change, potato/potahto. How far back indeed? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/186 "2022-02-28T21:37:54Z")
Afghanistan I think is even less relevant to all of this, but if you want to keep beating that dead horse it’s fine. Myself, I don’t see a good case being made that either Iraq or Afghanistan is similar in situation to what Russia is doing, has even less justification than the US did, and doesn’t have even the imprimatur of UN resolutions to back it up. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > How far back indeed? Well, if you are really reaching out to try and make this work, I’d look at the Spanish/American war (taking Cuba from Spain, say, and the Philipines), and the Mexican/American war for something that is a closer analogy…and if you don’t mind going back a bit more. Those are similar examples where the US went to war with the idea of annexing territory directly for our gain or to install a puppet government on rather dubious pretexts. Of course, in both of those cases we run into other issues, but they are more what I think you are grasping for. Or, we could just agree that two wrongs don’t make a right, and regardless of what the US has or hasn’t done in the past has zero impact on the fact that Russia is in naked aggression mode and what they are doing has no justification. I’m fine with that if you want to just drop the US angle part and we can move onto sanctions against Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/187 "2022-03-01T02:05:28Z")
Interesting Op-Ed that says the UN may just possibly… maybe… Not be the toothless wimp that it has been in the past. > Russia vetoed the resolution when it was put to the Security Council, where it sits as one of five permanent members. But for the first time in 40 years, the other members of the body charged with keeping world peace opted to send the resolution to a vote by the UN’s 193 member countries. This was done under the Uniting for Peace resolution, which states that when the Security Council fails to act to maintain international peace because of lack of unanimity, the General Assembly can consider the matter – and can even call for collective measures such as the use of armed force. Any kind of concerted UN action would seem unlikely but who can predict anything with any certainty anymore. What does appear to be happening is that the vulnerable nations of the South see the UN Charter as their best defence against arbitrary aggression. > Lloyd Axworthy, Canada’s foreign minister for four years under Jean Chrétien, said perversely Putin has unified the UN. > > “It demonstrates the power of today’s modern communications. Every time a Russian soldier puts his head above the parapet, somebody is taking a video. It’s not a war you can do covertly and, as a result, it’s world-wide and everyone puts themselves in (Ukraine’s) position,” he said. > **[John Ivison: At the UN, 'a dramatic feeling that something needs to be done'...](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-at-the-un-a-dramatic-feeling-that-something-needs-to-be-done-this-time)** > > A vote on a resolution deploring Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a watershed moment and may help redeem the UN’s reputation for futility ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/188 "2022-03-01T06:51:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I like it, but it probably won’t matter much. It mattered a lot to the old Apartheid government when they were isolated in sports. More than you’d think it should. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/189 "2022-03-01T06:55:23Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The one example of sanctions maybe working was South Africa, although, even there, opinion differs as to whether sanctions speeded or slowed the transition to democracy. They helped. The Apartheid government basically died because it was destitute. And the morale boost here from knowing at least some of the Western world wasn’t like Reagan and Thatcher also helped a lot. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Somehow I don’t see Putin as the next de Klerk. No, Putin’s the P.W. Botha, whoever _ousts_ him is the de Klerk. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/190 "2022-03-01T09:04:13Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > As screwed up as US “nation-building” efforts might have been, they were at least sincere in wanting Iraq to be able to stand on its own as a modern nation Bullshit ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/191 "2022-03-01T09:05:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It mattered a lot to the old Apartheid government when they were isolated in sports. More than you’d think it should. That was their own fault. All they had to do was allow a couple of token black players and it would have been fine and dandy as far most of the West was concerned. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/192 "2022-03-01T12:21:13Z")
[They tried tha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Tobias)t. It did not go down well. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/193 "2022-03-01T12:27:18Z")
I was talking more in the 60’s. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/194 "2022-03-01T14:54:23Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I don’t think you get to make up arguments that you feel support militarily violating another nation’s sovereignty. I agree you don’t; the 2003 Iraq War was wrong and the WMD argument was a lie. However, I don’t think it was AS reprehensible a sin. Everything is in degrees. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think that Canada should tell Russia that they have noted that their embassy staff don’t like protests, so they are free to leave. In fact, several high ranking staff at the embassy should be told that they WILL NOW LEAVE, as they are being sent back to Russia. Goodbye, and fuck off. I am 100% on board with this. Get the fuck out. We don’t need them here, and if they don’t like residing in a free country, here’s an Uber to the airport. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/195 "2022-03-01T14:56:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It mattered a lot to the old Apartheid government when they were isolated in sports. More than you’d think it should. Sports obviously matter A LOT to Russia. Going back to the USSR, they have always seen international sports as a proxy conflict. It’s why the Communist bloc countries became - and in the case of Russia still are - infamous for cheating. To them, beating the free world is critically important. It’s a very political thing to the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/196 "2022-03-01T15:23:41Z")
Yes. A total ban on international sports will send a very direct message to the Russian people. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/197 "2022-03-01T16:09:45Z")
Not sure if it’s been mentioned yet, but > The International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) on Monday suspended Russian and Belarusian teams from its competitions until further notice and revoked Russia’s 2023 World Junior Championship hosting rights. This includes every international hockey competition at every age grouping. > **[IIHF suspends Russian, Belarusian teams amid ongoing military invasion of...](https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/iihf-suspends-russia-belarusian-teams-1.6367615)** > > The International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) on Monday suspended Russian and Belarusian teams from its competitions until further notice and revoked Russia's 2023 world junior championship hosting rights. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/198 "2022-03-01T17:43:31Z")
Interesting idea: Use the London homes of Russian oligarchs to house Ukranian refugees. They can have their London homes back when the refugees are free to go back home to their country without Russian soldiers in it. > **[Put Ukrainian refugees in oligarchs’ London houses, Lviv mayor says](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/put-ukrainian-refugees-in-oligarchs-london-houses-lviv-mayor-says)** > > In interview with Guardian, Andriy Sadovyi also calls for Nato countries to establish immediate no-fly zone over Ukraine ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/199 "2022-03-01T19:25:02Z")
More possible good news? At the moment, this is just a small move on China’s part. However, they may be well placed to act as a go-between to stop the madness. If they wanted, China could shut the whole thing down tomorrow if they simply announced that they were willing to go along with the strong economic sanctions that the rest of the world is applying. Russia would be fully and totally isolated at that point, and it would be painfully clear that they would not survive if they stay in Ukraine. > **[Beijing offers to play role in ending attack on Ukraine amid international...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-beijing-offers-to-play-role-in-ending-attack-on-ukraine-amid/)** > > Ukraine said Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba had pushed his Chinese counterpart to put pressure on Russia to stop the war ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/200 "2022-03-01T20:23:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > At the moment, this is just a small move on China’s part. However, they may be well placed to act as a go-between to stop the madness. I doubt they will do anything substantial. Note, not that they couldn’t do something substantial, that they will. But time will tell. I wonder, does anyone know if the Russian invasion has affected things on the ISS or the various resupply flights that Russia periodically does to the station? I haven’t heard anything on this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007.md?page=11)