# Sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007 "2022-02-23T14:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/362 "2022-06-13T01:46:00Z")
I heard he was seen being loaded into a Paddy Wagon with a big, big bag over his head. A new mayor will be announced shortly by the military authorities. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/363 "2022-06-13T04:43:28Z")
“Patty Wagon” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/364 "2022-06-13T04:51:12Z")
Excellent! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/365 "2022-06-13T08:39:09Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > The new name of the former McDonald’s chain in Russia is > > Vkusno & Tochka (“Tasty and That’s It”) LOL, I heard this on the radio and thought the name was “Tasty” and the journalist was commenting about the shortness / obviousness of the name. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/366 "2022-06-13T13:05:07Z")
They really missed the opportunity to rebrand as Burgers ‘N’ Borscht ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/367 "2022-06-13T13:28:21Z")
Are they alliterative in Russian? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/368 "2022-06-13T13:42:27Z")
Wouldn’t know ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/369 "2022-06-23T22:48:39Z")
Sanctions starting to bite: the new Lada: current to 1985 technology, tosaravich! > **[No Shirt Buttons, No Airbags, Buggy Smartphones: Russia's Economy Enters The...](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-economy-western-sanctions-twilight-zone/31911576.html)** > > The Kremlin is optimistic the Russian economy can withstand the pounding from Western sanctions imposed in response to the Ukraine invasion. Some pragmatic voices within Russia aren’t so sure. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/370 "2022-06-24T01:19:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Wouldn’t know You’ll be delighted to know they are. Borscht is of course the Russian word (more or less) and “Burger” is a borrowed word in Russian, though it kinda sounds like “Boryer.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/371 "2022-07-13T19:43:44Z")
Don’t know if this is news outside of Canada. There is a dispute about a turbine from Germany, used on the Nord Stream gas pipeline from Russia that was sent to Montreal for repairs, prior to the war starting. Germany wants it to be returned and reinstalled, because Russia says it cannot provide natural gas on the pipeline without it. Germany needs to build up their gas reserves before winter, and without the turbine, they won’t be getting gas from Russia. The federal government issued a one-time exemption to allows the turbine to be returned, notwithstanding the sanctions. Trudeau explained it thus: > [@](#): > > “Countries in Europe, particularly Germany, have stepped up massively in their support of Ukraine as well, and we need to hold together, particularly faced with the attempts by Russia to weaponize energy policy, to divide us amongst ourselves,” Trudeau said, adding that Canada’s sanctions are meant to target and punish “Putin and his cronies,” not other allied countries. > > “And that’s exactly why we took this difficult decision, to be there for our allies, to ensure that in Europe — not just governments, but populations — stay steadfast and generous in their support of Ukraine.” Given that some see Germany as one of the potential weak links in NATO solidarity, I can see that argument. > **['A very difficult decision': PM Trudeau defends returning Russia-Germany...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/a-very-difficult-decision-pm-trudeau-defends-returning-russia-germany-pipeline-turbines-1.5985902)** > > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is defending Canada's decision to grant a Canadian company a two-year exemption to federal sanctions, allowing them to return turbines from a Russian pipeline that supplies natural gas to Germany. The prime minister said... Zelenskyy is strongly opposed: > **['Manifestation of weakness': Zelenskyy condemns Canada for return of...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/manifestation-of-weakness-zelenskyy-condemns-canada-for-return-of-russia-germany-pipeline-turbines-1.5984283)** > > Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is personally condemning Canada over its decision to allow a Canadian company to return turbines from a Russian pipeline that supplies natural gas to Germany. The Ukrainian World Congress has applied to the Federal Court for a judicial review of the decision: > **[Ukrainian group asks federal court to stop Russian gas turbine's return](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ukraines-zelenskyy-slams-canadas-weakness-for-returning-russian-turbine)** > > 'Canada’s decision to break sanctions and send the Siemens’ turbine back to Russia is a grave mistake with dire consequences,' says the group's president ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/372 "2022-07-13T19:47:49Z")
I would just like to say for the record that it was foolish for Germany in the first place to put themselves in a position where their economy is dependent on both the resources and goodwill of Russia. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/373 "2022-07-13T19:52:37Z")
Fully agree. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/374 "2022-07-13T20:12:38Z")
I realize this was posted over a month ago, but there was a good discussion not long ago on NPR about how the ruble was artificially propped up through a series of direct controls via their central bank. Economically, Russia is something of a one trick pony and so far their oil and gas revenues have managed to keep the Russian economy afloat. The longer term prospects for Russia’s economy looks grim. [Despite sanctions, why is the Russian ruble so strong? : The Indicator from Planet Money : NPR](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1110354162) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/375 "2022-07-20T04:38:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The federal government issued a one-time exemption to allows the turbine to be returned, notwithstanding the sanctions. Trudeau explained it thus: Meanwhile Germany is dragging it’s heals on the LNG port upgrades that would allow use of natural gas from Canada and the US. [Germany’s LNG terminals completion could be delayed, sector lobby says](https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/germanys-lng-terminals-completion-could-be-delayed-sector-lobby-says/) They will have to rent floating ports to compensate so hopefully they can meet their needs by Winter. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/376 "2022-07-29T18:28:17Z")
In the very long thread "Russia invades Ukraine"in MPSIMS there is a post about economic sanctions, by cardigan. I want to ask about it, but in that thread it would be off-topic. so I’m quoting the entire post #6672 here, with its links: > [@Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6826): > > I think the big questions that will decide this conflict mostly come down to economic factors: I came across this very encouraging study conducted by Yale that purports to show the Russian economy has been positively crippled by the sanctions. Here’s an interview and an article about the study: [Study shows: Western sanctions take a heavy toll on Russia’s economy | DW News - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSoJDIBdglM) [Sanctions ‘catastrophically crippling’ Russian economy, study finds | Euronews](https://www.euronews.com/2022/07/28/sanctions-catastrophically-crippling-russian-economy-study-finds) Here’s the paper itself: [Business Retreats and Sanctions Are Crippling the Russian Economy by Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, Steven Tian, Franek Sokolowski, Michal Wyrebkowski, Mateusz Kasprowicz :: SSRN](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4167193) In brief, Russia has tried to show the world it’s laughing off sanctions by cooking its books ala Enron. What the Yale study looked at was not what Russia was reporting, but rather, what all the countries that are trading with Russia are reporting. Those figures show Russia’s imports have been reduced to next to nothing. [/quote] – Okay, that all sounds good. But now my question is :… “So What?” Sure, Yale University is a pretty respectable source. And their facts and statistics seem reliable. But professors of economics are, well, only professors. (Ivory Tower, and all that .) And economists are , well, only economists. (There’s an old joke that economists have successfully predicted 9 of the the last 3 recessions.) And there’s that old saying that you can prove anything with statistics “there are lies, damn horrible lies, and statistics.” So my question is less about the numbers, and more about what’s happening socially in Russia. If I could visit a typical shopping mall in Moscow, would I see any signs of this impending economic collapse that the professors are talking about? There have been a few stories in the news recently about how Russian companies are having problems. The new Russian owner of McDonald’s can’t import the kind of potatoes that make McD’s french fries. And the Lada car company is selling cars without airbags, presumably because they can’t import the electronics parts. And Russian soldiers were seen looting washing machines from Ukrainian houses,( maybe because the electronic circuits inside can be re-used, or maybe just because soldiers are looting everything and anything then can grab?) But those seem like minor problems. What about life for the average civilian in Russia? Are they starting to notice that this war ( oops, “special military operation”) is affecting them personally? And even if so, what difference does it make in a dictatorship? Putin and his oligarchs will still control the economy. And even if the Russian GNP shrinks by tens of billions of rubles,. they will still be able to take their couple hundred million off the top , and let the rest of the population suffer. I\m not sure that economic sanctions will have any effect on ending the war. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/377 "2022-07-29T19:26:12Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I\m not sure that economic sanctions will have any effect on ending the war There is reason to expect it may not. The leadership conducting the war are more resistant to the economic effects because they can fall back on their kleptocratic riches. Even if they lose 90% it’s still obscenely more than they need for sybaritic luxury, and it doesn’t impinge the slightest in the wealth they are really interested in: power. And regarding the vox Populi: they don’t matter and haven’t in decades. And a large part of the populace lived through the grinding grey poverty of the Soviet years, and are thoroughly used to it. Some even regard those as the Good Old Days, and welcome the “return to greatness”. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/378 "2022-07-29T20:47:56Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > And regarding the vox Populi: they don’t matter and haven’t in decades. And a large part of the populace lived through the grinding grey poverty of the Soviet years, and are thoroughly used to it. Some even regard those as the Good Old Days, and welcome the “return to greatness”. I don’t disagree with this, but perhaps the younger part of the population born after 1991, who haven’t suffered like their parents, are getting fed-up with this situation? Surely, they must be feeling the pinch of the sanctions most acutely? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/379 "2022-07-29T21:10:51Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > perhaps the younger part of the population born after 1991, who haven’t suffered like their parents, are getting fed-up with this situation? Surely, they must be feeling the pinch of the sanctions most acutely I agree they most certainly are. Considering the male portion of this population has also directly borne the human cost of this war. That nostalgic St. Petersburg pensioner isn’t bleeding to death in a trench. As is usually the case, war is more popular with those who aren’t waging it. The operant question is whether disaffected youth can have an impact, and if so when? Viet Nam was largely solved (as a U.S. problem) by the political pressure of that disillusionment which started with youth movements. But what kind of political pressure matters in an authoritarian autocracy? ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/380 "2022-07-30T17:44:08Z")
If war declared and a general mobilisation, there might be protests. Especially if the sons of the middle classes in St Petersburg and Moscow were called up to fight an unpopular war. I met a Russian was in Moscow a couple of weeks ago and he said it all seemed pretty normal. The sanctions have not hit home yet. These things take time. While the Oil and Gas is still being bought by Europe to fill up their reserves, money is still flowing into Russia. Economic conflict operates at a different pace and it works both ways. Domestic fuel prices are set to triple in Europe. There is an old Russian joke that claims their victory in WW2 was because they had the best generals. Their names were December and January. That may well be true again given the huge dependency in many ex-Soviet European countries on Russian natural gas delivered by huge pipelines. While the shooting war in Ukraine gets all the headlines, the economic war is far less reported. There is a lot going on behind the scenes to ensure Europe does not freeze this winter. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/381 "2022-10-18T17:58:46Z")
Exxon Mobil has exited the oil business in Russia. Well actually, Russia just expropriated the Sakhalin-1 Russian joint venture, and Exxon will take a 3.4 billion hit, because it’s assets were basically just stolen. Other oil companies will face the same fate. Airline leasing companies and airline manufacturers also had their assets stolen by Russia. Many other western business interests have also been shafted by Russia. There will be no Western investment in Russia for a generation at least. This asinine invasion will pretty much guarantee Russia will be a poor third rate nation for decades to come. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007.md?page=20)