# Sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007 "2022-02-23T14:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/101 "2022-02-26T18:05:24Z")
Biden is reportedly considering kicking Russia out of the SWIFT global interbank network. May not happen, but it was formerly off the table, and is now under consideration. Apparently due to increasing support from the EU. Germany is still opposed, AIUI. If it happens, it would be financially crippling to the Russian economy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/102 "2022-02-26T18:19:05Z")
Russian citizens seem to be pretty afraid of it. If the goal is to make the people start to turn on Putin, I suspect that it would be good to ramp up the tension by continuing to talk it over for a few more days, rather than going for it immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/103 "2022-02-26T18:21:47Z")
Won’t the ultimate decision to disable SWIFT transfers to and from Russia come down to the Belgian government? They (SWIFT and Belgium) have said “no” to the US in the past just over providing records of transfers. A request to partially disable the system is asking them to shitcan SWIFT’s reputation as a neutral entity forever. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/104 "2022-02-26T18:31:59Z")
It seems to me like “neutral” could be taken to mean “neutral between socialist economies and capitalist economies, not preferring the East nor the West” but it could also be taken to mean, “neutral before any party who is lawfully engaging with the rest of the world”. Granted, for the latter, it might behoove them to ask that some international court give the order. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/105 "2022-02-26T18:32:48Z")
SWIFT is a cooperative owned by its ~2000 member banks, not by the Belgian government. It just happens to be headquartered in Belgium. The kerfuffle with Belgium and the EU had to to with the US allegedly violating EU privacy laws in its monitoring of SWIFT messages. To the best of my understanding neither Belgium nor the US nor anyone else has unilateral control over its operations, and it would take a consensus of the major participating nations to make a decision about Russia. Some of the opposition from countries like Germany is because they’re major importers of Russian energy and need to be able to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/106 "2022-02-26T18:36:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Some of the opposition from countries like Germany is because they’re major importers of Russian energy and need to be able to pay for it. Meh, this is a problem we already know how to solve: > **[How Pepsi briefly became the 6th largest military in the world](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-pepsi-briefly-became-the-6th-largest-military-in-the-world-2018-7)** > > In the late 1980s, the Soviet Union wanted to have Pepsi on hand permanently. But paying was an issue, so Moscow came up with a creative solution. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/107 "2022-02-26T18:56:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > but I can dream The thing is, this situation could reasonably be regarded as something analogous to 1939 (in my, perhaps simplistic, opinion) and in that case, I don’t see anything unreasonable about your suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/108 "2022-02-26T19:13:28Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Won’t the ultimate decision to disable SWIFT transfers to and from Russia come down to the Belgian government? They (SWIFT and Belgium) have said “no” to the US in the past just over providing records of transfers. A request to partially disable the system is asking them to shitcan SWIFT’s reputation as a neutral entity forever. Or the EU can order it, which it did a decade ago, when it directed that Iran be cut off from SWIFT. So does SWIFT only lose its reputation as a neutral entity if a European / Western country is cut off, but not if it’s country outside the European/West areas? (Treating Russia as European for the purposes of this discussion.) [Swift and sanctions | Swift](https://www.swift.com/about-us/legal/compliance-0/swift-and-sanctions#has-swift-ever-disconnected-banks-for-sanctions-purposes)? > [@](#): > > ## Has SWIFT ever disconnected banks for sanctions purposes? > > In March 2012, pursuant to international and multilateral action to intensify financial sanctions against Iran, [EU Regulation 267/2012](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:088:0001:0112:EN:PDF) was passed. The Regulation prohibits specialised financial messaging providers, such as SWIFT, from providing services to EU-sanctioned Iranian banks. SWIFT is incorporated under Belgian law and has to comply with this decision as confirmed by its home country government. SWIFT implemented the regulatory obligation by disconnecting the related EU-sanctioned banks. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/109 "2022-02-26T19:18:33Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Or the EU can order it, which it did a decade ago, when it directed that Iran be cut off from SWIFT. I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/110 "2022-02-26T19:48:55Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This is an interesting article on sanctions already imposed and their likely effects going forward. > > [US sanctions on Russian oligarchs miss richest of rich | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-ivanka-trump-joe-biden-sports-business-785172175d5ab4800e2a816b3ae2193d) > > I found it well worth the read. Since we’re discussing dream sanctions, why not nationalize all the stuff owned by Russian oligarchs and sell it to the highest non-Russian bidder? The UK could confiscate Chelsea FC and sell it off, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/111 "2022-02-26T19:52:03Z")
Note: I don’t believe that North Korea is on SWIFT, either: > **[North Korean banks kicked out of global messaging network](https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/08/investing/north-korea-banks-swift-ban/index.html)** > > Three blacklisted North Korean banks have been barred from the global messaging network that connects the world's financial institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/112 "2022-02-26T19:54:00Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Since we’re discussing dream sanctions, why not nationalize all the stuff owned by Russian oligarchs and sell it to the highest non-Russian bidder? The UK could confiscate Chelsea FC and sell it off, and so on. Oligarch can mean “wealthy Russian person” and it can mean “wealthy Russian person who supports Putin”. My belief and hope would be that we target the second kind. If you just go for the first, there’s no one on the side of good, who has power. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/113 "2022-02-26T19:55:06Z")
I’m having trouble finding the report from a news source I trust, but there are reports that two Chinese banks have suspended lending to Russia. I saw the headline on Bloomberg, but I don’t have subscription. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/114 "2022-02-26T20:12:16Z")
> **[Chinese banks limit financing for Russian purchases: Bloomberg](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220226-chinese-banks-limit-financing-for-russian-purchases-bloomberg)** > > Several Chinese public banks are limiting financing to purchase raw materials from Russia for fear of Western sanctions following the invasion of Ukraine, Bloomberg news agency reported on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/115 "2022-02-26T20:16:40Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > The UK could confiscate Chelsea FC and sell it off, and so on. Well apparently there has already been a call in Parliament for Roman Abramovich to be sanctioned, so [he has handed over control of Chelsea to trustees of the club’s charitable foundation](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/feb/26/abramovich-hands-stewardship-and-care-of-chelsea-to-charitable-foundation). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/116 "2022-02-26T20:25:23Z")
Doesn’t stop Parliament from passing the “Sequestration of Russian Oligarchs Property Act” and assigning the property and management to an Oligarchs Property Trustee for the duration. That’s what they did with property of Germans, Italians, etc during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/117 "2022-02-26T21:30:18Z")
YouTube has de-monetized a number of Russian channels: [https://www.reuters.com/technology/youtube-blocks-rt-other-russian-channels-generating-revenue-2022-02-26/](https://www.reuters.com/technology/youtube-blocks-rt-other-russian-channels-generating-revenue-2022-02-26/) > YouTube on Saturday barred Russian state-owned media outlet RT and other Russian channels from receiving money for advertisements that run with their videos, similar to a move by Facebook, after the invasion of Ukraine. > Videos from the affected channels also will come up less often in recommendations, YouTube spokesperson Farshad Shadloo said. He added that RT and several other channels would no longer be accessible in Ukraine due to a Ukrainian government request. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/118 "2022-02-26T22:26:29Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Unless we commit fully to _completely_ isolating Russia from the rest of the world, and are committed to maintaining that isolation until they get their shit together, which might take 50 years or more, it’s all going to be for nothing in the end. I agree that only the harshest sanctions – the ones that also entail a sacrifice from ordinary people in the West, like sanctions on natural gas and oil – would have an effect. And even if we get such sanctions, it’s not likely that Western governments will maintain them long-term. So sanctions really have an infinitesimal chance of influencing Russian aggression against Ukraine. And yet… and yet… Imagine a world where we do not even try, through sanctions, to express our revulsion toward the Kremlin for this invasion. Imagine that, where trade with Russia is concerned, we throw up our hands and just continue business as usual. What message would that send to everyone watching – for instance, to ordinary people in Russia? To would-be dictators outside Russia? And what would it do to our _own_ morale? It would be pure defeatism. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/119 "2022-02-26T22:29:05Z")
In another thread, Fiendish Astronaut posted that they are planning to lock out a list of Russian banks from the SWIFT system. I haven’t seen an article on it, but he was saying it’s been confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007/120 "2022-02-26T22:29:28Z")
Just coming through on my BBC News app: “EU, US and allies agree to cut off a number of Russian banks from main international payment system Swift.” > **[West to cut some Russian banks off from Swift](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60542433)** > > The EU, US and allies will block a number of Russian banks from the main global payment system, Swift. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-russia-for-invading-ukraine/960007.md?page=7)