# Sanctions on Syria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308 "2005-10-21T18:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/1 "2005-10-21T18:33:34Z")
From [http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2005-10-21T150221Z\_01\_ROB152841\_RTRUKOC\_0\_US-LEBANON-SYRIA-UN.xml:](http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2005-10-21T150221Z_01_ROB152841_RTRUKOC_0_US-LEBANON-SYRIA-UN.xml:) > [@](#): > > UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said on Friday that a U.N. inquiry into the murder of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri had presented hard-hitting findings on Syrian involvement in the killing. > > Bolton was consulting with fellow Security Council members on a wide range of possible responses, he said, but he would not say whether sanctions against Syria was among them. > > “This report is obviously very significant. It finds probable cause to believe that the assassination could not have been undertaken without the knowledge of senior figures in Syrian intelligence,” Bolton told reporters. Wait a minute – why was Bolton even asked about the possibility of sanctions? What would be the purpose? The whole world has been pretty sure for some time that the Syrian government was behind Hariri’s death. The Lebanese people reacted by rising up and throwing the Syrians out of their country. That fight has been **won.** What would be the point, now, of **any** kind of international response? Hauling the responsible parties before the ICC might be a good idea, but not one worth going to war over, or even imposing sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/2 "2005-10-21T18:54:41Z")
That’s silly. If the Syrians were involved as a matter of policy, then they need to be punished by the international community. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/3 "2005-10-21T18:56:48Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > That’s silly. If the Syrians were involved as a matter of policy, then they need to be punished by the international community. Why? International sanctions traditionally are imposed to encourage a state to change some existing policy – not to punish it for past transgressions. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/4 "2005-10-21T18:59:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why? International sanctions traditionally are imposed to encourage a state to change some existing policy – not to punish it for past transgressions. How about the policy of assissnating those people that disagree with them? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/5 "2005-10-21T19:08:48Z")
> [@scule](#): > > How about the policy of assissnating those people that disagree with them? Sanctions might get them to publicy repudiate that policy (without admitting they ever had it), but that’s all. It’s just something governments do. How many times has the CIA tried to take out Castro? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/6 "2005-10-21T19:10:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why? International sanctions traditionally are imposed to encourage a state to change some existing policy – not to punish it for past transgressions. Just because that’s traditionally what has happened doesn’t mean that’s what always needs to happen. There ought to be an international response, and full out war is overkill. Impose sanctions for five years. Of course, no reason you can’t attach conditions to the sanctions, such as, say, stopping the funding of Hizbollah or something. Get creative. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/7 "2005-10-21T19:13:41Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Of course, no reason you can’t attach conditions to the sanctions, such as, say, stopping the funding of Hizbollah or something. Get creative. Careful. Based on recent experience, that kind of “creativity” can be a prelude to an invasion – even over a _casus belli_ that might not have been considered sufficient by itself, if not compounded with resistance to international demands. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/8 "2005-10-21T19:15:04Z")
What do you then propose as an alternative BG? Do nothing? Use strong language? -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/9 "2005-10-21T19:17:19Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > What do you then propose as an alternative BG? Do nothing? Use strong language? > > -XT Why do anything? The Syrian-Lebanese conflict is over. Hariri triumphed from beyond the grave. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/10 "2005-10-21T19:25:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do anything? The Syrian-Lebanese conflict is over. Hariri triumphed from beyond the grave. But it’s not. Syria still has influence there, and will continue to do so so long as there’s a sympathetic ear to listen. Sanctions would be a way to say that the horrible regime that runs the country is not well-regarded by the rest of the world. Seriously, I’m surprised they haven’t been sanctioned for years. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/11 "2005-10-21T19:40:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do anything? The Syrian-Lebanese conflict is over. Hariri triumphed from beyond the grave. For the same reason countries always impose sanctions…as a punishment and a future warning. Besides, who said the Syrian-Lebanese conflict is over? Syria is still involved with Lebanon, even if in a covert way…bank on it. If you simply ignore this then you are basically saying to the Syrians that you don’t care…and at least backhandedly encouraging them to similar adventures in the future. I will agree however that war would be silly. Sanctions though? Yeah…I think that would be appropriate. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/12 "2005-10-21T19:49:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I will agree however that war would be silly. Sanctions though? Yeah…I think that would be appropriate. But how can we be sure it would **end** with sanctions? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/13 "2005-10-21T20:08:27Z")
Well, how can we be sure of anything BG? Its one of those sticky situations that tend to crop up in life. Do we do nothing and perhaps encourage the Syrians to play more raindeer games? Do we put forth sanctions that may have no effect at all? Do we put on sanctions and they have GW rise, like an evil vampire, and declare himself king of the world…using the sanctions as an excuse? There just isn’t any way to know. I say doing nothing would be the worst action. I’m willing to take the chance and am simply laying in a stock of wooden stakes and garlic… -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/14 "2005-10-21T20:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I say doing nothing would be the worst action. [QUOTE] If we do nothing, what exactly are you afraid will happen? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/15 "2005-10-21T20:40:52Z")
Sanctions-as-punishment would be a bad idea IMO - they would not accomplish anything positive, just add support by patriotic Syrians for the Assad regime and support by Arabs who resent what they’d see as Western meddling for Syria. But sanctions or the threat of sanctions to enforce cooperation with a prosecution might do some good. The requirement would be for Syria to fully cooperate with, and extradite indictees to, an independent court (Lebanese or international). The precedent would be the UN sanctions against Libya to enforce cooperation with the Lockerbie trial. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/16 "2005-10-22T02:10:08Z")
It might go beyond sanctions. I believe there is a chance that a number of high-ranking Syrian regime officials may be charged with crimes under international law. Here’s the [UN Report](http://www.un.org/News/dh/docs/mehlisreport/). > [@](#): > > Building on the findings of the Commission and Lebanese investigations to date > and on the basis of the material and documentary evidence collected, and the leads > pursued until now, there is converging evidence pointing at both Lebanese and Syrian > involvement in this terrorist act. It is a well known fact that Syrian Military Intelligence > had a pervasive presence in Lebanon at the least until the withdrawal of the Syrian forces > pursuant to resolution 1559. The former senior security officials of Lebanon were their > appointees. Given the infiltration of Lebanese institutions and society by the Syrian and > Lebanese intelligence services working in tandem, it would be difficult to envisage a > scenario whereby such a complex assassination plot could have been carried out without > their knowledge. > … > It is the Commission’s conclusion that, after having interviewed witnesses and > suspects in the Syrian Arab Republic and establishing that many leads point directly > towards Syrian security officials as being involved with the assassination, it is incumbent > upon Syria to clarify a considerable part of the unresolved questions. While the Syrian > authorities, after initial hesitation, have cooperated to a limited degree with the > Commission, several interviewees tried to mislead the investigation by giving false or > inaccurate statements. The letter addressed to the Commission by the Foreign Minister of > the Syrian Arab Republic proved to contain false information. The full picture of the > assassination can only be reached through an extensive and credible investigation that > would be conducted in an open and transparent manner to the full satisfaction of > international scrutiny. The prime suspect, Asef Shawkat, is the head of Syrian intelligence, and is married to Bashir Assad’s daughter. If the U.N. demands that he be brought to justice, it will be interesting to see how Syria responds. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/17 "2005-10-22T02:39:29Z")
Bush is now calling for a special UN session over this: [http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/21/bush.hariri/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/21/bush.hariri/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/18 "2005-10-28T15:56:45Z")
Update: Tony Blair is refusing to “rule out” sanctions on Syria. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk\_news/politics/4373596.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4373596.stm) But Russia is vowing to block any sanctions. [http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=72338&d=27&m=10&y=2005](http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=72338&d=27&m=10&y=2005) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/19 "2005-10-28T20:27:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But Russia is vowing to block any sanctions. Gee, there’s a shocker. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctions-on-syria/327308/20 "2005-10-31T19:09:27Z")
Looks like the UN Security Council is all set to vote, this week, on sanctions on Syria should the government fail to cooperate with a UN probe into Hariri’s murder: [http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30314334.htm](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30314334.htm) Russia and China are against the measure but are not expected to veto it.