# "Sanctuary cities" and federal laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327 "2017-07-28T14:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/21 "2017-07-28T16:56:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, that’s a shame to hear. Are there any other laws which, if not strictly enforced, render the whole of American jurisprudence meaningless, or is it just this one? > > Just wondering, because I saw a guy make a rolling stop at a stop sign recently, and it would be a lot of fun to get loaded and drive a stolen car 120mph through a playground. Sounds fine, just as long as jay-walking’s not involved. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/22 "2017-07-28T17:55:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had issued a detainer for Sanchez requesting that he be kept in custody until immigration authorities could pick him up. San Francisco ignore that and released him. The Supreme Court case [Prigg v Pennsylvania](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/41/539/case.html) held (among other things) that states are not obliged to aid the federal government in enforcing federal law. That case was decided in 1842 so this is not exactly a new thing. The case regarded the Fugitive Slave Act which this immigration stuff seems to have some parallels to. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/23 "2017-07-28T18:08:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had issued a detainer for Sanchez requesting that he be kept in custody until immigration authorities could pick him up. San Francisco ignore that and released him. If ICE wanted this guy they could have picked him up. They didn’t pick him up, they just requested for San Francisco to detain him indefinitely. Are you in favor of indefinite detention without trial? They didn’t conceal him. They didn’t harbor him. They didn’t shield him from detection. And they didn’t attempt to do any of those things. All they did was not detain him. Therefore, they didn’t violate the law. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/24 "2017-07-28T18:36:06Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > All they did was not detain him. And if they had detained him without any prior felonies, they would have been in violation of a city ordinance established in 2013. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/25 "2017-07-28T20:13:39Z")
I love how parts of the right claims to support “states rights” while simultaneously supporting the absolute destruction of states sovereignty. Which this subject is a case of. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/26 "2017-07-28T20:18:51Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > And if they had detained him without any prior felonies, they would have been in violation of a city ordinance established in 2013. The man had been convicted of five felonies prior to his being released by San Francisco. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/27 "2017-07-28T20:22:40Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The man had been convicted of five felonies prior to his being released by San Francisco. So why did the federal government keep releasing him? [Trump during his campaign.](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-criminal-deportation-20160829-snap-story.html) > [@](#): > > In recent days, he has said he would instead focus deportations on those with criminal records. On his first day in office, Trump said, he plans to sign orders to speed up the removal of “criminal illegal immigrants” from the U.S. Even Trump is in favor of deporting them so they can come back. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/28 "2017-07-28T20:34:16Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > My argument is that ignoring an explicit detainer request from ICE falls squarely under: “knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place”. Your argument is wrong, because: 1. Nobody concealed, harbored, nor shielded him from detection, nor attempted to do so. Releasing someone doesn’t qualify as any of those actions. 2. It isn’t City of San Franscisco’s job to know who is violating immigration law. An ICE detainer notice in itself does not confer knowledge of someone’s immigration status, since an ICE detains people for all sorts of reasons unrelated to their immigration status. You’d be pretty shocked if you knew the extent of ICE powers over legal US residents and citizens. This is another case where we just have to laugh while the right proves its fetish over states’ rights and the rule of law to be a total sham. If anyone broke the law, it’s ICE. It’s their job to keep this from happening, and they released him to an agency who has no such mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/29 "2017-07-28T20:37:26Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > since an ICE detains people for all sorts of reasons unrelated to their immigration status. You’d be pretty shocked if you knew the extent of ICE powers over legal US residents and citizens. Cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE did not consider illegal immigrants? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/30 "2017-07-28T20:40:03Z")
It is not a crime for a city or state to decline a detainer request. Indeed, it would be unconstitutional to require them to follow the request, which is why the Trump Administration is trying to achieve that with spending conditions instead of by mandating it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/31 "2017-07-28T20:43:26Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE did not consider illegal immigrants? Why would you think that ICE has no jurisdiction over legal residents? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/32 "2017-07-28T20:47:12Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE did not consider illegal immigrants? Cite that San Francisco concealed, harbored, or shielded him from detection, or attempted to do so? They didn’t hide him from ICE. They didn’t refuse to hand him over to ICE. They didn’t stop ICE from finding him. They didn’t attempt to do any of those things. ICE knew where he was: in jail. They knew when he was going to be released. They could have been waiting at the jailhouse door with a set of handcuffs. ICE didn’t do any of those things. So why are you upset about San Francisco releasing this guy, but not ICE for not detaining him? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/33 "2017-07-28T20:47:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE did not consider illegal immigrants? Presumably he’s paid his debt to society for those crimes. Regardless the state has zero obligation to help the feds with this. If they do help it is a courtesy only. Imagine the feds tell the state you live in that they have to go arrest Okrahoma because he has an “assault rifle” as they define “assault rifle” which they deem illegal. Your local police have zero problem with you owning that gun which is 100% legal in your state. Should the local police be obliged to arrest you because the feds said so? If they pulled you over for a traffic violation and then let you go have they abetted your crime for not detaining you on behalf of the feds? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/34 "2017-07-28T20:49:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Why would you think that ICE has no jurisdiction over legal residents? I didn’t ask that. I asked if ICE has ever issued a “detainer” for someone they did not consider an illegal alien, since the poster claimed that “ICE detainer notice in itself does not confer knowledge of someone’s immigration status”. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/35 "2017-07-28T20:50:37Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > ICE knew where he was: in jail. They knew when he was going to be released. No, they didn’t. I repeat: Lopes-Sanchez was released onto the streets of San Francisco without notifying immigration officials. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/36 "2017-07-28T20:52:46Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No, they didn’t. I repeat: Lopes-Sanchez was released onto the streets of San Francisco without notifying immigration officials. OK then. Cite that San Francisco concealed, harbored, or shielded him from detection, or attempted to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/37 "2017-07-28T20:59:29Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > OK then. > > Cite that San Francisco concealed, harbored, or shielded him from detection, or attempted to do so? Knowing that the detainee is an illegal immigrant and releasing him into the streets without notifying ICE obviously conceals him in the general population and shields him from detection. Quite obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/38 "2017-07-28T21:00:12Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Knowing that the detainee is an illegal immigrant and releasing him into the streets without notifying ICE obviously conceals him in the general population and shields him from detection. Quite obviously. It really does not matter if they knew he was an illegal alien. They are under no obligation to detain him for the feds (see supreme court case cited above in post #22). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/39 "2017-07-28T21:01:23Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No, they didn’t. I repeat: Lopes-Sanchez was released onto the streets of San Francisco without notifying immigration officials. [They already knew he was there.](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/us/san-francisco-murder-case-exposes-lapses-in-immigration-enforcement.html) > [@](#): > > The lapse in the case of Mr. Lopez-Sanchez — also known as José Inez García Zarate and several other names — did not occur at the border, legal records show. After being deported in June 2009, he tried to return three months later but was stopped by agents at the crossing in Eagle Pass, Tex. **He was then prosecuted for a felony of illegal entry and served almost four years in a federal prison in California.** > When he finished his sentence,\*\* the prison sent him to San Francisco\*\* on March 27, based on a warrant for a 20-year-old felony marijuana charge. Within a day, a local court dismissed the charges. \*\*Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi of San Francisco said Mr. Lopez-Sanchez stayed in jail for three weeks so the authorities could verify that he was eligible for release. He was freed April 15. > \*\* > At that point, communications between San Francisco and federal authorities broke down. > > Federal officials say that as soon as they learned of Mr. Lopez-Sanchez’s transfer from federal prison to San Francisco, they issued a request to Sheriff Mirkarimi to notify them when he would be released. An order for his deportation was ready. The Feds knew where he was and waited 3 weeks when 48 hours is all a detain request covers. [From here.](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/immigration-detainers-overview) > [@](#): > > Detainers instruct federal, state, or local law enforcement agencies (LEA) to hold individuals for up to 48 business hours beyond the time they otherwise would have been released (i.e., when charges have been disposed of through a finding of guilt or innocence; when charges have been dropped; when bail has been secured; or when convicted individuals have served out their sentence). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/40 "2017-07-28T21:02:54Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE did not consider illegal immigrants? [Rony Chavez Aguilar was held in ICE custody for nearly three weeks without being able to see a judge, and without knowing why he was being detained](http://www.thedailybeast.com/american-citizen-trapped-in-ice-jail) [“Project New Dawn,” a part of ICE’s “Operation Community Shield” program that targeted street gangs between March 26 and May 6, led to the arrests of 1,378 people nationwide … Of those arrested, 933 are U.S. citizens.](http://www.vocativ.com/429166/ice-agents-gangbusters-citizens-immigration/) [More than 1,500 U.S. citizens were wrongly held in local jails or detention centers at the request of immigration officials between 2007 and 2015, according to a 2016 National Public Radio analysis of detainer requests.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/23/immigration-citizens-know-your-rights/99534722/) As far as evidence that someone is in the country illegally, an ICE detainer doesn’t amount to jack shit, hence your argument amounts to the same. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327.md?page=3)