# "Sanctuary cities" and federal laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327 "2017-07-28T14:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/41 "2017-07-28T21:07:37Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The man had been convicted of five felonies prior to his being released by San Francisco. [How many _violent_ felonies since 26 March 2008](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20376480&postcount=18)? Drug charges don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/42 "2017-07-28T21:08:48Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > [Rony Chavez Aguilar was held in ICE custody for nearly three weeks without being able to see a judge, and without knowing why he was being detained](http://www.thedailybeast.com/american-citizen-trapped-in-ice-jail) > > [“Project New Dawn,” a part of ICE’s “Operation Community Shield” program that targeted street gangs between March 26 and May 6, led to the arrests of 1,378 people nationwide … Of those arrested, 933 are U.S. citizens.](http://www.vocativ.com/429166/ice-agents-gangbusters-citizens-immigration/) > > [More than 1,500 U.S. citizens were wrongly held in local jails or detention centers at the request of immigration officials between 2007 and 2015, according to a 2016 National Public Radio analysis of detainer requests.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/23/immigration-citizens-know-your-rights/99534722/) > > As far as evidence that someone is in the country illegally, an ICE detainer doesn’t amount to jack shit, hence your argument amounts to the same. I asked you for a cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE **did not consider illegal immigrants**. You didn’t provide one. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/43 "2017-07-28T21:09:49Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [How many _violent_ felonies since 26 March 2008](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20376480&postcount=18)? Your post to which I was responding: “And if they had detained him without any prior felonies, they would have been in violation of a city ordinance established in 2013.” Where is “violent felonies” in your post? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/44 "2017-07-28T21:11:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [They already knew he was there.](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/us/san-francisco-murder-case-exposes-lapses-in-immigration-enforcement.html) > > The Feds knew where he was and waited 3 weeks when 48 hours is all a detain request covers. > [From here.](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/immigration-detainers-overview) Which part of this is not clear in that article? "Federal officials say that as soon as they learned of Mr. Lopez-Sanchez’s transfer from federal prison to San Francisco, they issued a request to Sheriff Mirkarimi to notify them when he would be released. An order for his deportation was ready. **“We are just asking for a heads-up, a phone call,” said Gillian Christensen, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE. “We did not hear anything until the day this young woman was killed.”** ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/45 "2017-07-28T21:12:51Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I asked you for a cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE **did not consider illegal immigrants**. You didn’t provide one. What part of U.S. citizens do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/46 "2017-07-28T21:13:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Where is “violent felonies” in your post? It’s in post #18, the one about that 2013 city ordinance, which is what that link would direct you to. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/47 "2017-07-28T21:20:31Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Knowing that the detainee is an illegal immigrant and releasing him into the streets without notifying ICE obviously conceals him in the general population and shields him from detection. Quite obviously. No it doesn’t, quite obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/48 "2017-07-28T21:20:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Knowing that the detainee is an illegal immigrant and releasing him into the streets without notifying ICE obviously conceals him in the general population and shields him from detection. Quite obviously. I’m going to respond to this, but first I have to go conceal my cat. She’s been scratching at the door all day wanting to get out, so I might as well shield her from detection. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/49 "2017-07-28T21:32:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I asked you for a cite that ICE detainers were issued against people that ICE **did not consider illegal immigrants**. You didn’t provide one. I can only give you cites; I can’t understand them for you. How about you provide a cite that San Francisco conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/50 "2017-07-28T21:33:54Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I can only give you cites; I can’t understand them for you. > > How about you provide a cite that San Francisco conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place? I can only give you cites; I can’t understand them for you. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/51 "2017-07-28T21:40:26Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I can only give you cites; I can’t understand them for you. Posting history suggests that you aren’t capable of either. We await your citation that San Francisco conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/52 "2017-07-28T21:44:01Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Posting history suggests that you aren’t capable of either. We await your citation that San Francisco conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place. They released him into the streets without notifying ICE. Not even a phone call. I gave you a cite for that. That concealed him among general population and shielded him from detection. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/53 "2017-07-28T21:51:39Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > They released him into the streets without notifying ICE. Not even a phone call. I gave you a cite for that. That concealed him among general population and shielded him from detection. Sorry Sparky. No city is required to notify ICE before releasing someone. An ICE detainer isn’t evidence of illegal presence in the country. And if we accept that’s the case, then ICE is the agency that screwed the pooch and broke the law. Can you provide a cite that San Francisco is responsible for making sure ICE doesn’t fuck up? Sorry bro. Thread fail. Try again tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/54 "2017-07-28T22:00:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > They released him into the streets without notifying ICE. Not even a phone call. I gave you a cite for that. That concealed him among general population and shielded him from detection. You know what they say, if you love something, conceal it and shield it from detection. If it comes back, it loves you too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/55 "2017-07-28T22:18:22Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > They released him into the streets without notifying ICE. Not even a phone call. I gave you a cite for that. That concealed him among general population and shielded him from detection. How does letting someone go qualify as “concealing” or “shielding”? I can’t think of any sense of the word in which letting someone go free to do what they will qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/56 "2017-07-28T22:21:10Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > They released him into the streets without notifying ICE. Not even a phone call. I gave you a cite for that. That concealed him among general population and shielded him from detection. There’s glory for you. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/57 "2017-07-28T22:22:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This is another case where we just have to laugh while the right proves its fetish over states’ rights and the rule of law to be a total sham. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Posting history suggests that you aren’t capable of either. We await your citation that San Francisco conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place. Knock it off. In the first quote, the thin veneer of shifting to attacking “the right” is not an adequate shield to defend against this attack on the motives. In the second quote, you are personalizing your argument in a way that is not appropriate for this forum. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/58 "2017-07-28T22:25:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Knowing that the detainee is an illegal immigrant and releasing him into the streets without notifying ICE obviously conceals him in the general population and shields him from detection. Quite obviously. No, it is not obvious. What is obvious is that state and local law enforcement are not obligated to cooperate with enforcing federal laws. There is zero support for the idea that releasing this person is equivalent to meet the definition of “conceal” or “shield” as contemplated by the statue you cited in the OP. You may wish it to be so, but it is not the case. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion? I don’t think you do. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/59 "2017-07-28T22:39:56Z")
How often does this happen? Policy should be based on facts and not a selected anecdote. The facts look more like this: Studies show that for the most part, people who migrate are a self-selecting group who want to better their lives, provide for their families back in their home countries and who don’t want to risk getting in trouble with the law, said Kubrin, the criminology professor at University of California, Irvine. > **[PolitiFact - Trump leaves out context in claim about immigrants and crime](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/nov/03/donald-trump/trump-leaves-out-context-claim-about-immigrants-an/)** > > Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has emphasized his promise to deport criminals living in the United States If anti-immigrant conservatives are going to be outraged that an illegal immigrant committed a homicide, they should be a lot more outraged that some 12,000 Americans die every year of gun homicides or gun accidents at the hands of their fellow Americans in a country which has by far the most lax gun laws in the civilized world, hundreds of the victims just small children. Where is the outrage over that? They should be even more outraged that an estimated 45,000 of their fellow citizens die every year from lack of proper health care. Where is the outrage? Conservative outrage always seems to be in pursuit of some misguided ideologically-driven nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327/60 "2017-07-28T22:44:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How does letting someone go qualify as “concealing” or “shielding”? I can’t think of any sense of the word in which letting someone go free to do what they will qualifies. I read this story about a guy who was wrongly convicted for murder like 20 years ago. When the exculpatory evidence made its way in front of a judge, the warden had no choice but to conceal him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanctuary-cities-and-federal-laws/792327.md?page=4)