# Sanderista primaries out 10-term Dem Congressman **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850 "2018-06-27T17:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/181 "2018-07-18T15:30:28Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Holy shit she said unemployment is low “because everyone has two jobs”. This is someone who admits she is not an expert on geopolitics but is an economics major. Wow. Then she said “Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week, and can barely feed their kids.” This is an amazing display of ignorance for someone who plays up their economics background. > > This is the state of economics education in the US. Good thing there are probably thousands of homeschooled free market kids who could smash these lightweights who were drooling over their iPads at that age. The future is bright. > > [https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/17/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-unemployment/amp?\_\_twitter\_impression=true](https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/17/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-unemployment/amp?__twitter_impression=true) Did you actually listen to what she said? Interviewer: Now, the economy is going pretty strong. There’s roughly 4% unemployment, 3.9% unemployment. Do you think that capitalism has failed to deliver for working-class Americans, or is no longer the best vehicle for working-class Americans? O-C: Well, I think the number that you just talked about is part of the problem, right? Because we look at these figures and we say ‘oh, unemployment is low, everything is fine’, right? Well, unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week, and can barely feed their kids. And so I do think that right now while we do have this no-holds-barred, Wild West hyper-capitalism, what that means is profit at any cost. Capitalism has not always existed in the world, and it will not always exist in the world. When this country started, we were not a capitalist - we did not operate on a capitalist economy. She’s saying that the unemployment rate isn’t the best rubric for economic health, that job quality and quality of life gets overlooked, and that people can have a job and still be in a very rough spot. These are perfectly reasonable points. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/182 "2018-07-18T15:33:49Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Holy shit she said unemployment is low “because everyone has two jobs”. This is someone who admits she is not an expert on geopolitics but is an economics major. Wow. Then she said “Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week, and can barely feed their kids.” This is an amazing display of ignorance for someone who plays up their economics background. > > This is the state of economics education in the US. Good thing there are probably thousands of homeschooled free market kids who could smash these lightweights who were drooling over their iPads at that age. The future is bright. > > [https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/17/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-unemployment/amp?\_\_twitter\_impression=true](https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/17/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-unemployment/amp?__twitter_impression=true) …the President of the United States doesn’t know the difference between “would” and “wouldn’t.” The President of the United States can barely string a coherent sentence together. The President of the United States had to write “No Colusion” in big letters in a sharpie so that he wouldn’t forget to say it. If “the state of economics education” is getting you this distraught I’d hate to see what would happen if you spent ten minutes reading the Presidents twitter feed. The President sets the tone. Ocasio-Cortez is a Rhodes Scholar compared to what is coming out of the White House at the moment. (And the article you cited doesn’t appear to have an editor, it spells Ocasio-Cortez’s name wrong at least once, so the “future is bright” indeed. ) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/183 "2018-07-18T15:36:06Z")
**Will** , you might want to go tell the working poor yourself that everything is fine for them; just look at the unemployment rate. Get back to us with what reaction you get. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/184 "2018-07-18T15:44:54Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Did you actually listen to what she said? > > Interviewer: Now, the economy is going pretty strong. There’s roughly 4% unemployment, 3.9% unemployment. Do you think that capitalism has failed to deliver for working-class Americans, or is no longer the best vehicle for working-class Americans? > > O-C: Well, I think the number that you just talked about is part of the problem, right? Because we look at these figures and we say ‘oh, unemployment is low, everything is fine’, right? Well, unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week, and can barely feed their kids. And so I do think that right now while we do have this no-holds-barred, Wild West hyper-capitalism, what that means is profit at any cost. Capitalism has not always existed in the world, and it will not always exist in the world. When this country started, we were not a capitalist - we did not operate on a capitalist economy. > > She’s saying that the unemployment rate isn’t the best rubric for economic health, that job quality and quality of life gets overlooked, and that people can have a job and still be in a very rough spot. These are perfectly reasonable points. She literally said “unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs”. That is ignorance on how unemployment is calculated. Straight up ignorance. I’m sorry but the pleas you copped for her do not jive with what she’s said at all. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/185 "2018-07-18T15:46:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Holy shit she said unemployment is low “because everyone has two jobs”. This is someone who admits she is not an expert on geopolitics but is an economics major. Wow. Then she said “Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week, and can barely feed their kids.” This is an amazing display of ignorance for someone who plays up their economics background. I would agree that her response tends to oversimplify, but she does have a valid point: on the one hand, we have higher employment, but the American worker is getting ripped off. Unemployment and productivity are as high as they’ve been in years, and yet wage stagnation grows. In fact, wages are barely outpacing inflation. This is the classic “Crisis of Capitalism” scenario, in which the rich take an increased percentage of the fruits of everyone’s increased labor. Here’s a good article if you care to read: > **[New Study Confirms That American Workers Are Getting Ripped Off](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/07/oecd-study-labor-conditions-confirms-that-u-s-workers-are-getting-ripped-off.html)** > > U.S. workers get a smaller share of growth, less job security, and fewer unemployment benefits than laborers in nearly every other developed country. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/186 "2018-07-18T15:47:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Will** , you might want to go tell the working poor yourself that everything is fine for them; just look at the unemployment rate. Get back to us with what reaction you get. I didn’t even bring up unemployment as a metric. She could have said it was not a good metric. Fine. She didn’t say that. She gave a confused explanation for why it is low. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/187 "2018-07-18T15:48:59Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I would agree that her response tends to oversimplify, but she does have a valid point: on the one hand, we have higher employment, but the American worker is getting ripped off. Unemployment and productivity are as high as they’ve been in years, and yet wage stagnation grows. In fact, wages are barely outpacing inflation. This is the classic “Crisis of Capitalism” scenario, in which the rich take an increased percentage of the fruits of everyone’s increased labor. > > Here’s a good article if you care to read: > > [OECD Study Confirms That U.S. Workers Are Getting Ripped Off](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/oecd-study-labor-conditions-confirms-that-u-s-workers-are-getting-ripped-off.html) Her point would have been valid if she did not say the demonstrably false claims. It was a failed explanation for the unemployment numbers, but it does explain why she gets everything else about the economy wrong. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/188 "2018-07-18T15:51:16Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the President of the United States doesn’t know the difference between “would” and “wouldn’t.” The President of the United States can barely string a coherent sentence together. The President of the United States had to write “No Colusion” in big letters in a sharpie so that he wouldn’t forget to say it. > > If “the state of economics education” is getting you this distraught I’d hate to see what would happen if you spent ten minutes reading the Presidents twitter feed. The President sets the tone. Ocasio-Cortez is a Rhodes Scholar compared to what is coming out of the White House at the moment. (And the article you cited doesn’t appear to have an editor, it spells Ocasio-Cortez’s name wrong at least once, so the “future is bright” indeed. ) I severely underestimated your plea-copping game, **BB**. Good show. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/189 "2018-07-18T15:54:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > She literally said “unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs”. That is ignorance on how unemployment is calculated. Straight up ignorance. I’m sorry but the pleas you copped for her do not jive with what she’s said at all. That requires making assumptions about what she meant. You (and the Reason blog) are assuming she meant that “the unemployment rate is calculated via the number of jobs divided by the number of people”, because it suits your purposes to do so. However, she also could have meant that “unemployment is low because the economy has created lots of low-quality jobs, leaving many to work two or more jobs”, which is more consistent with the rest of her remarks. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/190 "2018-07-18T15:59:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I didn’t even bring up unemployment as a metric. She could have said it was not a good metric. Fine. She didn’t say that. She gave a confused explanation for why it is low. She did say that. How is: “Well, I think the number that you just talked about is part of the problem, right? Because we look at these figures and we say ‘oh, unemployment is low, everything is fine’, right?” anything else but saying it’s a bad metric? She obviously meant “unemployment is low because everyone took shitty jobs” but you are determined to read it in the worst possible light. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/191 "2018-07-18T16:00:20Z")
Thank you Human Actikn for providing further false statements she made in that trainwreck of an interview. She claims we have “hyper-capitalism”. We are plunging in the economic freedom index and rank below some much ballyhooed Scandinavian countries. She bemoans work hours. They have been decreasing as a general trend for at least a century and a half. She bemoans voluntary two-job situations. They have been decreasing for decades. She says we we did not have capitalism when we “started”. That would be interesting to scholars of colonial history, because it is patently false. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/192 "2018-07-18T16:03:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That requires making assumptions about what she meant. You (and the Reason blog) are assuming she meant that “the unemployment rate is calculated via the number of jobs divided by the number of people”, because it suits your purposes to do so. However, she also could have meant that “unemployment is low because the economy has created lots of low-quality jobs, leaving many to work two or more jobs”, which is more consistent with the rest of her remarks. That is not anything close to what she said. You are taking liberties by completely changing the statement. I can change any statement to make it true as well. In addition, that would be an extremely bizarre way to present that causal mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/193 "2018-07-18T16:04:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > She did say that. How is: > > “Well, I think the number that you just talked about is part of the problem, right? Because we look at these figures and we say ‘oh, unemployment is low, everything is fine’, right?” > > anything else but saying it’s a bad metric? She obviously meant “unemployment is low because everyone took shitty jobs” but you are determined to read it in the worst possible light. That is an extremely bizarre way to frame that causal mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/194 "2018-07-18T16:06:54Z")
Dude, your economic philosophy is seriously way out on the fringes. I will take your criticisms of the causal mechanisms with a big grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/195 "2018-07-18T16:10:46Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Her point would have been valid if she did not say the demonstrably false claims. It was a failed explanation for the unemployment numbers, but it does explain why she gets everything else about the economy wrong. You’re just latching on to a literal quote that you’ve deliberately taken out of context. This is nothing more than “You didn’t build that,” the 2018 version. Nice try, but I think everyone else understands what she meant. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/196 "2018-07-18T16:11:00Z")
She could have said “Unemployment is low, but everyone has bad jobs.” Easy peasy, and I am not a politician who has spent weeks framing these discussions. She said “Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs.” Why? Plain ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/197 "2018-07-18T16:12:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Dude, your economic philosophy is seriously way out on the fringes. I will take your criticisms of the causal mechanisms with a big grain of salt. I’m not even arguing with her about that. In fact, I agree the economy is grossly distorted and shitty jobs are one symptom of that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/198 "2018-07-18T16:12:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > She could have said “Unemployment is low, but everyone has bad jobs.” > Easy peasy, and I am not a politician who has spent weeks framing these discussions. > She said “Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs.” Why? Plain ignorance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/199 "2018-07-18T16:14:14Z")
She has a BA in economics. The reasonable thing to think is she phrased it poorly. Like I said, you are trying to read her in the worst possible light, even going so far as to ignore things she plainly said, as I pointed out in post 190. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/200 "2018-07-18T16:15:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > That is not anything close to what she said. You are taking liberties by completely changing the statement. I can change any statement to make it true as well. In addition, that would be an extremely bizarre way to present that causal mechanism. Again, she didn’t say “the unemployment rate is calculated via the number of jobs divided by the number of people”. So either way, we’re looking at a certain amount of interpretation - this is a live interview, not a book. My interpretation is consistent with her other remarks, and makes sense. Yours is much less so. So yeah, I’m going with the one that makes sense in the context in which it was uttered. You do you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850.md?page=11)