# Sanderista primaries out 10-term Dem Congressman **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850 "2018-06-27T17:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/241 "2018-07-19T18:48:42Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Probably something like “too many people are working two jobs out of desperation”, like the folks in [this article.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/10/17/job-juggle-real-many-americans-balancing-two-even-three-gigs/92072068/) The figure being low doesn’t do you any good if you’re one of those 5%. The prison population is something like .01% of the adult population, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care about those people and their problems. > > Probably something like “too many people are working long hours out of desperation”. Animal cruelty has decreased for at least a century, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t care if my neighbor runs a dogfighting ring. In summary, we can make specific hyperbolic claims not grounded in reality, but excuse them by interpreting them as somewhat-related emotional appeals to anecdotal experience. Thanks for the contribution. In this way “Mexicans are rapists”, becomes “Dark people are taking jobs that belong to you”. Sounds like an awesome recipe for political discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/242 "2018-07-19T18:59:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > In summary, we can make specific hyperbolic claims not grounded in reality, but excuse them by interpreting them as somewhat-related emotional appeals to anecdotal experience. Thanks for the contribution. > > In this way “Mexicans are rapists”, becomes “Dark people are taking jobs that belong to you”. Sounds like an awesome recipe for political discourse. Yes, “everybody is working two jobs/60 hours a week” is hyperbole. AOC did not literally mean that every person in the US or the world is working two jobs or 60 hours a week. Well spotted. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/243 "2018-07-19T19:52:36Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > It’s a D+29 district, she’s going to win in the general election. It’s not a done deal, with Crowley still on the general election ballot. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/244 "2018-07-19T20:10:23Z")
Crowley has said he’s not running and I don’t believe he wants to be a spoiler. I’m sure he’s got his eye set on another office in the future or perhaps even a return to congress in 2020 if the AOC bubble bursts. Yes, he’ll be listed on the ballot under a 3rd party but without an active campaign, that won’t be enough to spilt left of center voters in a D+29 district ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/245 "2018-07-19T20:20:15Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > It’s a D+29 district, she’s going to win in the general election. That’s not an exact enough mirror. 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/246 "2018-07-19T20:29:59Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Crowley has said he’s not running and I don’t believe he wants to be a spoiler. I’m sure he’s got his eye set on another office in the future or perhaps even a return to congress in 2020 if the AOC bubble bursts. > > Yes, he’ll be listed on the ballot under a 3rd party but without an active campaign, that won’t be enough to spilt left of center voters in a D+29 district Then why did he decline the request from the Working Families Party to withdraw his name? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/247 "2018-07-19T20:44:24Z")
New York has some seriously fucked up ballot laws. Basically, the only way he can have them remove his name is for him to accept a nomination from them for another office. This article is about as clear of a cite as I can find right now. [http://queenstribune.com/joe-crowley-is-not-running-on-wfp-line/](http://queenstribune.com/joe-crowley-is-not-running-on-wfp-line/) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/248 "2018-07-20T02:44:19Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … her comments more generally about the economy were not really off base. She spoke about the concentration of wealth, which is generally accepted to be at highs not seen in decades. She spoke about flat wage growth and she spoke about how we lack access to healthcare - those are pretty mainstream economic concerns and political themes these days. … Agreed on all. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/249 "2018-07-20T03:58:38Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Probably something like “too many people are working two jobs out of desperation”, like the folks in [this article.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/10/17/job-juggle-real-many-americans-balancing-two-even-three-gigs/92072068/) The figure being low doesn’t do you any good if you’re one of those 5%. The prison population is something like .01% of the adult population, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care about those people and their problems. > > Probably something like “too many people are working long hours out of desperation”. Animal cruelty has decreased for at least a century, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t care if my neighbor runs a dogfighting ring. Just picking nits, it might be working out of desperation, but the problem might also be more a matter of working the equivalent of a full-time load and realizing that it may not be enough; that there aren’t enough hours one can trade for dollars to keep up with rising rents, rising inflation, and decreasing social safety nets. Will F could well be 100% right that wealthier people work just as hard, have multiple jobs, and perhaps even work longer hours. The difference is, they can absorb more economic instability than someone scraping the wage floor. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/250 "2018-07-20T04:01:40Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > New York has some seriously fucked up ballot laws. Basically, the only way he can have them remove his name is for him to accept a nomination from them for another office. > > This article is about as clear of a cite as I can find right now. > > [http://queenstribune.com/joe-crowley-is-not-running-on-wfp-line/](http://queenstribune.com/joe-crowley-is-not-running-on-wfp-line/) Yeah, as much as I want to bang on Joe Crowley, I’m not sure we have enough evidence to trash the guy. New York politics has always been cage match politics. I like AOC and all, but she’s gotta know what she signed up for. She ain’t running for her neighborhood association board. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/251 "2018-07-20T05:39:45Z")
Crowley’s been pretty chill about his loss in public statements. [_Face the Nation_, July 15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp_ia70cMY) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/252 "2018-07-20T13:23:48Z")
So [this](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/19/as-upstart-ocasio-cortez-hits-campaign-trail-with-bernie-sanders-high-profile-spurs-fears-dem-rift.html) is fun: Fox News’ concern that Ocasio-Cortez “high profile” may cause a “Dem rift” … (they say muttering “please” under their breath). 🙂 Here’s the thing though … there is a big temptation to overly exploit her right now (by _various_ elements) and IF she is going to an upcoming talent I’m fearful that overexploiting her early can harm her long term value, whether viewed from the perspective of progressives in their battle over the steering wheel of the party or from the perspective of the more traditional party elements who want her motivating youth and Hispanic turnout for all D candidates. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/253 "2018-07-21T06:04:51Z")
She hasn’t even been elected to Congress yet and she’s already wanting to bring the revolution. > **[Ocasio-Cortez floating progressive sub-caucus](https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/397244-ocasio-cortez-floating-progressive-sub-caucus/)** > > Democratic New York congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a new darling of the left, is floating a “sub-caucus” for progressive members of the House who want to in… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/254 "2018-07-21T10:32:52Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > She hasn’t even been elected to Congress yet and she’s already wanting to bring the revolution. > > [http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/397244-ocasio-cortez-floating-progressive-sub-caucus](http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/397244-ocasio-cortez-floating-progressive-sub-caucus) Oh no, an ambitious and energetic young progressive running for congress and getting media attention! How horrible for the Democratic party! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/255 "2018-07-21T13:25:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Look, when people are so balls to the wall nuts on economics, who knows what they are trying to say… Let’s see. [Alexandria did well enough in Intel’s science talent search](https://www.tapinto.net/towns/yorktown/articles/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-puts-yorktown-heights-on) to get an asteroid named after her! (Any Dopers with an asteroid named after them?) She graduated fourth in her class from Boston University’s College of Arts and Sciences with a bachelor’s degree in economics and international relations; and has been named the National Hispanic Institute’s Person of the Year. Ignorant badmouthing of her economics expertise would be _de rigueur_ from the Board’s “conservatives.” But when she’s criticized by an apparent Rothbard disciple who is unable to answer even simple questions about the teachings of his idol, all one can do is laugh. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/256 "2018-07-21T20:11:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Oh no, an ambitious and energetic young progressive running for congress and getting media attention! How horrible for the Democratic party! I do suspect that she is going to find the going tough once she gets into the House. Somehow I don’t think the experienced members of the current progressive caucus will just fall into line behind her plans and bow to her as leader, which is really what that bit comes off as what she is expecting to happen. And IF she does advocate for holding the rest of the party, including other progressives who do not sign on as members her hoped for “sub-caucus”, hostage … give us what we want or we prevent you from doing anything … then she would be horrible both for the party and the for the country. At least _pretending_ to have a little humility and being open to to idea that maybe, just maybe, you have things to learn from the progressives in the House who have been at it for a while, rather than announcing how you will get them to change things before you even arrive (because of course they have been doing it wrong and you know better), would likely serve her career well. That sort of posturing can end up getting you iced completely by all. It portends an increased probability that these 15 minutes of fame may be the only ones she gets after all. But she can still learn. Maybe she will. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/257 "2018-07-21T20:23:23Z")
That’s a pretty harsh reading. Bow to her as leader? Holding them hostage? Kind of overly dramatic language, don’t you think? I would like to thnk the older members will not take too much offense to some gushy naivete from a new member. Hopefully more of them think “Aaaw. She reminds me of me before the weight of the world crushed my spirit.” ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/258 "2018-07-21T20:33:23Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I do suspect that she is going to find the going tough once she gets into the House. Somehow I don’t think the experienced members of the current progressive caucus will just fall into line behind her plans and bow to her as leader, which is really what that bit comes off as what she is expecting to happen. > > And IF she does advocate for holding the rest of the party, including other progressives who do not sign on as members her hoped for “sub-caucus”, hostage … give us what we want or we prevent you from doing anything … then she would be horrible both for the party and the for the country. > > At least _pretending_ to have a little humility and being open to to idea that maybe, just maybe, you have things to learn from the progressives in the House who have been at it for a while, rather than announcing how you will get them to change things before you even arrive (because of course they have been doing it wrong and you know better), would likely serve her career well. > > That sort of posturing can end up getting you iced completely by all. It portends an increased probability that these 15 minutes of fame may be the only ones she gets after all. > > But she can still learn. Maybe she will. You’re exactly right. This is what Barney Frank said about Bernie Sanders just a few months after Bernie was elected to Congress. …“Bernie alienates his natural allies,” then-Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told the Los Angeles Times just months after Sanders first took federal office. “His holier-than-thou attitude — saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else — really undercuts his effectiveness.”… [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/06/the-case-against-bernie-sanders-according-to-barney-frank/?utm\_term=.d9bfe662de38](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/06/the-case-against-bernie-sanders-according-to-barney-frank/?utm_term=.d9bfe662de38) I’m sure most of us have had the new employee that shows up at work on the first day and immediately wants to be the CEO. They’ll tell you all the ways your office needs to change and why you’e doing things wrong before they even know where the bathroom is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/259 "2018-07-21T21:30:05Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > You’re exactly right. This is what Barney Frank said about Bernie Sanders just a few months after Bernie was elected to Congress. > > …“Bernie alienates his natural allies,” then-Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told the Los Angeles Times just months after Sanders first took federal office. “His holier-than-thou attitude — saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else — really undercuts his effectiveness.”… > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/06/the-case-against-bernie-sanders-according-to-barney-frank/?utm\_term=.d9bfe662de38](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/06/the-case-against-bernie-sanders-according-to-barney-frank/?utm_term=.d9bfe662de38) > > I’m sure most of us have had the new employee that shows up at work on the first day and immediately wants to be the CEO. They’ll tell you all the ways your office needs to change and why you’e doing things wrong before they even know where the bathroom is. God forbid we actually give her a chance to win and be in congress before we shit all over her. Remember, it’s important for the party that we discourage young voters who might be excited about some new candidates. If we don’t shit on candidates like her, then other young progressives might get the idea in their minds that the Democratic party welcomes them and wants them to be the next generation! What a horror that would be! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/260 "2018-07-21T22:07:25Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I do suspect that she is going to find the going tough once she gets into the House. Somehow I don’t think the experienced members of the current progressive caucus will just fall into line behind her plans and bow to her as leader, which is really what that bit comes off as what she is expecting to happen. > > And IF she does advocate for holding the rest of the party, including other progressives who do not sign on as members her hoped for “sub-caucus”, hostage … give us what we want or we prevent you from doing anything … then she would be horrible both for the party and the for the country. > > At least _pretending_ to have a little humility and being open to to idea that maybe, just maybe, you have things to learn from the progressives in the House who have been at it for a while, rather than announcing how you will get them to change things before you even arrive (because of course they have been doing it wrong and you know better), would likely serve her career well. > > That sort of posturing can end up getting you iced completely by all. It portends an increased probability that these 15 minutes of fame may be the only ones she gets after all. > > But she can still learn. Maybe she will. > [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s a pretty harsh reading. Bow to her as leader? Holding them hostage? Kind of overly dramatic language, don’t you think? Was there something in the podcast about her being the leader of this sub-caucus? I only read the linked article and there wasn’t anything there about her claiming to be a leader. She just said that it’s easier to get 30 people to vote as a block than to get 100 people to do so. And you can do a lot with a 30 vote block. She’s right about that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850.md?page=14)