# Sanderista primaries out 10-term Dem Congressman **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850 "2018-06-27T17:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/341 "2018-08-11T12:03:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > An inspirational speech where a person is stating an opinion (it is my belief) or crafting a vision for the future is quite different from giving an interview to a reporter about the current state of affairs. To nit pick FDR like that is to miss the point of the speech entirely. Not at all the same as AOC’s interview where she is talking about the current state of affairs. She made a mistake, and should just correct it, learn and move on. No big deal. She doesn’t even have to apologize; she could just say “I meant…” and move on. Nobody would care. I don’t even think that the interview was a disaster in its entirety; much of what she said was spot on generally. She just needs to be better prepared when discussing the details. I don’t disagree with Pantastic in that politicians frequently misstate facts or spin facts in their favor, but there’s an art to it. In the context of an interview with an organization that has a reputation for being neutral, intellectual, and professional, AOC needed to up her game a little bit. I wouldn’t say she swung and missed, but let’s just say that she hit a foul ball. Just be better prepared, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/342 "2018-08-11T14:34:24Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > So you think that criticism of FDR’s speech in the style that I gave is not excessive, nitpicking, or otherwise unreasonable? YM obviously V. > > Reading the Dope is like peeking into bizarro-world sometime. … I agree with the latter … after reading your latests posts anyway! No, AOC “two jobs” etc. bits were not on par with that vision and a vision for the country being not literal eyesight or “fear itself” and it is bizzaro-world to be making that comparison. No, it was not a metaphor, a simile, or even hyperbole. It was just incorrect. Wrong. Dare we say, an “alternative fact.” She’s a 28 year old suddenly thrust into the national spotlight who is being told she is of tremendous importance and significance and _she believes it_. Seasoned professionals have fumbles and stumbles when in that space, with the cameras on all angles ready to replay in slo-mo. It would be much more of a surprise if she had no flubs than that she dropped the ball once or twice. Her long term career would be best served with a chance to not be “so much” _right away_. Very very few can do that. Let her get into Congress and get her feet wet, give her a chance to grow and develop, before pushing her celebritidom too hard. And let her learn from mistakes rather pretend that her shit don’t stank. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/343 "2018-08-11T16:19:33Z")
Well said, DSeid. She also has kind of been thrust into the role of latest right-wing boogeyperson, if my 30 second exposure to el Rushbo whilst scanning the radio dial is any indication. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/344 "2018-08-11T18:33:14Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > How should she correct it? Poor wording on my part. She should correct it _if asked about it_. It’s such a minor thing, really, that a proactive correction isn’t warranted. It’s not even yesterday’s news anymore. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/345 "2018-08-11T18:41:52Z")
:dubious: Sure looked like hyperbole to me. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/346 "2018-08-11T22:54:41Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > :dubious: Sure looked like hyperbole to me. Hyperbole can still be wrong. Obviously, she would be using hyperbole if she said “everyone is working two jobs”. We all understand she doesn’t mean that literally. But if you say “unemployment is low because everyone is working two jobs” when two-job-holders are at a low level, that’s misleading with the hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/347 "2018-08-14T20:28:17Z")
She has now turned her penetrating insight onto the military budget - > [@Ms. Ocasio-Cortez](#): > > “Just last year we gave the military a $700 billion dollar budget increase, which they didn’t even ask for,” she said. “They were like, ‘we don’t want another fighter jet. Don’t give us another nuclear bomb.’ They didn’t even ask for it. And we gave it to them.” with a [similar outcome](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/aug/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-defense-budget/). She also suggesting including funeral expenses under Medicare for All, but maybe that’s just if UHC doesn’t help. She also said that Israel is occupying Palestine, but at least she knows that [she doesn’t know what she is saying.](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-talks-about-the-occupation-of-palestine-but-she-doesnt-know-what-that-means) > [@](#): > > I am not the expert on geopolitics on this issue. Do tell. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/348 "2018-08-14T20:36:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > She has now turned her penetrating insight onto the military budget - > with a [similar outcome](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/aug/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-defense-budget/). > > She also suggesting including funeral expenses under Medicare for All, but maybe that’s just if UHC doesn’t help. > > She also said that Israel is occupying Palestine, but at least she knows that [she doesn’t know what she is saying.](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-talks-about-the-occupation-of-palestine-but-she-doesnt-know-what-that-means) > Do tell. > > Regards, > Shodan You’re really afraid of her, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/349 "2018-08-14T20:46:48Z")
AOC embarrassed herself in Hawaii by supporting Kaniela Ing in Hawaii’s 1st CD. Ing got a whopping 6% of the vote. Sorry, AOC, Chaminade beating Virginia was a fluke, just like your race was. She has a choice now. She can keep tilting at windmills and trying to move that window or whatever she thinks she’s accomplishing. Or, she can focus on her race in New York and start learning how to build coalitions and become an effective member of the House of Representatives. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/350 "2018-08-14T21:54:20Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Considering that probably makes her easier to tie into Venezuelan socialism, it probably doesn’t hurt. Why Venezuelan socialism and not just plain ol socialism? Venezuela is just the latest place it doesn’t work because it wasn’t implemented right or something. Why not try it here though? Who isn’t looking forward to raiding the zoo for dinner? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/351 "2018-08-14T21:58:36Z")
538 did a story very closely related to this: > **[We Looked At Hundreds Of Endorsements. Here’s Who Democrats Are Listening To.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-establishment-is-beating-the-progressive-wing-in-democratic-primaries-so-far/)** > > Research by Ballotpedia and Roey Hadar, Lee Harris, Adam Kelsey, Adia Robinson, Meena Venkataramanan and Johnny Verhovek of ABC News. This story was produced in… They found that progressive candidates endorsed by the likes of Bernie Sanders are doing okay, but what’s much more notable is how much the rhetoric and policy positions of “mainstream” Democrats has moved towards the platform of Sanders. Universal health care, $15 min wage, and much more, are now mainstream Democratic policy positions. That’s a big, big win for progressives in the mold of AOC. The progressives may be being beat in primaries quite often, but just as often, if not more so, they’re being joined, even when they lose. Most of these progressives who have lost have lost to other progressive candidates. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/352 "2018-08-14T23:14:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > 538 did a story very closely related to this: > > [We Looked At Hundreds Of Endorsements. Here’s Who Democrats Are Listening To. | FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-establishment-is-beating-the-progressive-wing-in-democratic-primaries-so-far/) > > They found that progressive candidates endorsed by the likes of Bernie Sanders are doing okay, but what’s much more notable is how much the rhetoric and policy positions of “mainstream” Democrats has moved towards the platform of Sanders. Universal health care, $15 min wage, and much more, are now mainstream Democratic policy positions. That’s a big, big win for progressives in the mold of AOC. The progressives may be being beat in primaries quite often, but just as often, if not more so, they’re being joined, even when they lose. Most of these progressives who have lost have lost to other progressive candidates. And will those newly minted progressives keep those progressive positions in the general election? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/353 "2018-08-14T23:19:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And will those newly minted progressives keep those progressive positions in the general election? We’ll see. Probably depends on how successful they are (how many seats they win, and whether they gain the speakership). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/354 "2018-08-14T23:23:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why Venezuelan socialism and not just plain ol socialism? Venezuela is just the latest place it doesn’t work because it wasn’t implemented right or something. Why not try it here though? Who isn’t looking forward to raiding the zoo for dinner? The one time the USA butchered zoo animals for dinner was after the 1929 crash, caused by extreme _capitalism._ Khrushchev’s Soviet Union, while not perfect, did OK economically. Maybe the difference in economic fortunes is due to something else. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/355 "2018-08-14T23:47:18Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The one time the USA butchered zoo animals for dinner was after the 1929 crash, caused by extreme _capitalism._ > > Khrushchev’s Soviet Union, while not perfect, did OK economically. > > Maybe the difference in economic fortunes is due to something else. Yeah capitalism at its lowest barely beats socialism at its best? That’s a great endorsement for failed leftist economics. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/356 "2018-08-15T00:11:13Z")
That’s not what I said. The “capitalist” economy you grew up in was shaped by social liberalism and central planning. _Pure_ capitalism will lead to famine and war. Khrushchev’s Soviet Union was an economic success. Cuba seems economically stable. Less extreme “socialism,” like social democracy, has a good record in the Benelux and the Nordic countries. Picking on Venezuela is cherry-picking. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/357 "2018-08-15T00:26:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Khrushchev’s Soviet Union was an economic success. Cuba seems economically stable. When you’re an economic success, you don’t have to forcibly prevent your citizens from emigrating. Please don’t tell me you’re a Cuban apologist. Folks risk their lives to escape from that totalitarian, one-party state. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/358 "2018-08-15T12:05:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > You’re really afraid of her, aren’t you? The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes. What if she really is the future of the Democratic party? A socialist nutbag with delusions of adequacy, who responds with accusations of sexism every time someone calls her out on a whopper. Come to think of it, maybe she is the present of the Democratic party. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/359 "2018-08-15T13:08:45Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > That’s not what I said. The “capitalist” economy you grew up in was shaped by social liberalism and central planning. _Pure_ capitalism will lead to famine and war. > > Khrushchev’s Soviet Union was an economic success. Cuba seems economically stable. Less extreme “socialism,” like social democracy, has a good record in the Benelux and the Nordic countries. Picking on Venezuela is cherry-picking. Sorry, but I just don’t see it - and I never agree with octopus on anything.:eek: But economies that rely on centralized planning almost invariably turn out to be disasters. The market always outperform the ‘superman’ or ‘supermen’ who try to outperform it. You can redistribute the wealth that capitalism and free markets generate – that is absolutely the place for economists. But not in creating and sustaining wealth. Hospitals? Schools? Institutions? I see a role for government control there, but not in the market itself. That being said, I suspect a lot of “socialists” are mislabeling themselves or being mislabeled. I doubt most American “socialists” want to control the market; they just want to redistribute wealth through taxation and investment, which has been economic orthodoxy of many center-left democratic, capitalist societies for the last 70 years. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850/360 "2018-08-15T13:13:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes. What if she really is the future of the Democratic party? > > A socialist nutbag with delusions of adequacy, who responds with accusations of sexism every time someone calls her out on a whopper. Come to think of it, maybe she is the present of the Democratic party. > > Regards, > Shodan Since we’re talking about socialists, and by virtue of that, human intervention in markets, what are your thoughts on the current president? How do you feel about his intervention in free trade? What are your thoughts on his repeated efforts to injure American brands with his twitter rage? These aren’t the tactics of Obama, but rather Hugo Chavez or even Vladimir Putin. Where’s your outrage? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderista-primaries-out-10-term-dem-congressman/816850.md?page=19)