# Sanders and Paul against sanctions. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733 "2017-08-04T00:16:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/1 "2017-08-04T00:16:47Z")
The only two senators to have sense enough to vote against the horrible warmongering sanctions bill were these two guys. Is this not a significant fact? Bernie Sanders had a very sizeable following during his campaign. Paul not so much, but he is in the news quite a bit and represents a certain view that has a small but dedicated group of adherents. Trump is a clown, I understand, but he did win the election and had a large number of votes. He is not keen on this bill either for reasons besides merely the loss of presidential power. Seems to me that Congress is out of step with the (oblivious)public quite a bit here, but I’m not seeing this pointed out in the media coverage. Also, the 3 Congressmen who voted against the bill are solid Paulians. Where is the non-interventionist left? Too busy demanding transgenders have the right to destroy civilizations as well? Anyway, was Sanders’ vote a burst of senility or what the hell is going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/2 "2017-08-04T00:21:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Seems to me that Congress is out of step with the (oblivious)public quite a bit here, but I’m not seeing this pointed out in the media coverage. [3 out of 5 voters support Russia sanctions.](https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/21/americans-show-bipartisan-support-russia-sanctions-poll-shows/) As usual, your understanding of what the average American supports is almost entirely out of joint with reality. > [@](#): > > Too busy demanding transgenders have the right to destroy civilizations as well? Ugly, but wholly unsurprising coming from you. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/3 "2017-08-04T00:29:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [3 out of 5 voters support Russia sanctions.](https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/21/americans-show-bipartisan-support-russia-sanctions-poll-shows/) As usual, your understanding of what the average American supports is almost entirely out of joint with reality. > > Ugly, but wholly unsurprising coming from you. Public: 3/5 ( after ceaseless war propaganda for months, that’s actually pretty low) Congress: 430/435 Big Media: 100% ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/4 "2017-08-04T00:39:44Z")
When, reluctantly or enthusiastically, the generally pacifist Trumpo authorized bombing Syria as a lesson his popularity rate shot up just as briefly. As with the Mexican War, it’s some effete ivory tower intellectuals like Thoreau _contra_, against the sturdy patriots’ _pro_. The American Public has never seen a war against others it did not love. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/5 "2017-08-04T00:52:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [3 out of 5 voters support Russia sanctions.](https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/21/americans-show-bipartisan-support-russia-sanctions-poll-shows/) As usual, your understanding of what the average American supports is almost entirely out of joint with reality. Humorously you actually understated the case from that poll. There’s big numbers that answered “Don’t know” so the actual opposition to new sanctions is even smaller. Only 20% of all Americans and 23% of Democrats actually opposed the sanctions. Among Independents, where there’s a big chunk of solid Dem-leaning voters, opposition was 18%. The bill also included mandatory consultation of Congress before lifting previously existing sanctions and that got even more support among Democrats. > [@](#): > > Two-thirds of Democrats and roughly half of independents (49 percent) were in agreement that removing sanctions would be wrong **WillFarnaby,** The non-interventionist left is where it’s been for most of recent US political history. It’s on the periphery of the Democratic Party unable to significantly affect even primaries let alone general elections. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/6 "2017-08-04T00:54:07Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > … horrible warmongering sanctions bill … If you are concerned about war breaking out, you can place the cause of your fear elsewhere. Take a closer look at the moron in the oval office. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > … Too busy demanding transgenders have the right to destroy civilizations as well? … Is that the goal of transgendered people? Is that your fear? I will hold further comment until this thread gets moved to the appropriate forum. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/7 "2017-08-04T01:10:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Anyway, was Sanders’ vote a burst of senility or what the hell is going on here? Sanders has said that he strongly supports sanctions against Russia, and has at times supported sanctions against Iran. However, the two sanctions packages were in the same bill. He said he is concerned about new sanctions on Iran could jeopardize the JCPOA nuclear deal between the P5 and Iran, so he voted against the bill. It has nothing to do with Rand Paul’s position, which is on the substance opposed to sanctions on Russia. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/8 "2017-08-04T01:20:44Z")
Hey! Why would you deny transgenders the same rights to destroy civilization as you have? The right to destroy civilization should be the same for everyone! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/9 "2017-08-04T01:47:27Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Humorously you actually understated the case from that poll. There’s big numbers that answered “Don’t know” so the actual opposition to new sanctions is even smaller. Only 20% of all Americans and 23% of Democrats actually opposed the sanctions. Among Independents, where there’s a big chunk of solid Dem-leaning voters, opposition was 18%. > > The bill also included mandatory consultation of Congress before lifting previously existing sanctions and that got even more support among Democrats. > **WillFarnaby,** The non-interventionist left is where it’s been for most of recent US political history. It’s on the periphery of the Democratic Party unable to significantly affect even primaries let alone general elections. Of course, this is all with months and months of anti-Russia/anti-Trump/anti-RussiaTrump propaganda saturating all major news outlets. I would conclude that a surprisingly high number of regular folks do not support sanctions. > [@bobot](#): > > If you are concerned about war breaking out, you can place the cause of your fear elsewhere. Take a closer look at the moron in the oval office. No I was strongly anti-president and anti-war before Trump. That has not changed. > [@](#): > > Is that the goal of transgendered people? Is that your fear? I will hold further comment until this thread gets moved to the appropriate forum. I don’t know that transgendered people have a common goal. I do know the military has a common goal. That is to kill and destroy whomever or whatever the president tells them to. In recent years, they have destroyed several flawed, but nevertheless stable societies. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Sanders has said that he strongly supports sanctions against Russia, and has at times supported sanctions against Iran. However, the two sanctions packages were in the same bill. He said he is concerned about new sanctions on Iran could jeopardize the JCPOA nuclear deal between the P5 and Iran, so he voted against the bill. > > It has nothing to do with Rand Paul’s position, which is on the substance opposed to sanctions on Russia. Ok so why isn’t Sanders’ position more popular in the Democratic Party? You know, the one where he energized millions of people to vote for him? Is there not a single anti-war bone in the Democratic body? Sad. They aren’t even standing up for the Sooper Obama Legacy that is oh so important. They’ve discarded Obama’s Iran policy and are locked and loaded for WWIII. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/10 "2017-08-04T01:52:40Z")
So what’s your bullshit about “transgenders” (nice) having the right to destroy civilization? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/11 "2017-08-04T01:53:09Z")
I’m moving this to the Pit. You’ve poisoned the well from the outset with slams against the left and an odd rant about transgenders destroying the west. Thwt comment was out of line in this forum. No warning issued, but tread very carefully in the future. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The only two senators to have sense enough to vote against the horrible warmongering sanctions bill were these two guys. Is this not a significant fact? > > Bernie Sanders had a very sizeable following during his campaign. Paul not so much, but he is in the news quite a bit and represents a certain view that has a small but dedicated group of adherents. > > Trump is a clown, I understand, but he did win the election and had a large number of votes. He is not keen on this bill either for reasons besides merely the loss of presidential power. > > Seems to me that Congress is out of step with the (oblivious)public quite a bit here, but I’m not seeing this pointed out in the media coverage. > > Also, the 3 Congressmen who voted against the bill are solid Paulians. Where is the non-interventionist left? Too busy demanding transgenders have the right to destroy civilizations as well? > > Anyway, was Sanders’ vote a burst of senility or what the hell is going on here? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/12 "2017-08-04T02:01:06Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > So what’s your bullshit about “transgenders” (nice) having the right to destroy civilization? I’m honestly sorry if that is an offensive term. I thought I was using the current revision of the PC Specification. Apparently I was on the revision that was valid from 12:30am July 29 2017 to 3:10pm August 3 2017. The leftists are upset that transgenders can’t be Trump minions anymore. Since he is hellbent on destroying civilizations with his armies, he is thus excluding transgender persons from these pursuits. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/13 "2017-08-04T02:03:07Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I’m moving this to the Pit. You’ve poisoned the well from the outset with slams against the left and an odd rant about transgenders destroying the west. > > Thwt comment was out of line in this forum. No warning issued, but tread very carefully in the future. I didn’t realize a slam against 430 congresspersons and all media including Fox News and Drudge Report was a slam against the left. But thanks for not understanding a word i said. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/14 "2017-08-04T02:07:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m honestly sorry if that is an offensive term. I thought I was using the current revision of the PC Specification. Apparently I was on the revision that was valid from 12:30am July 29 2017 to 3:10pm August 3 2017. > \*\* > The leftists are upset that transgenders can’t be Trump minions anymore. \*\*Since he is hellbent on destroying civilizations with his armies, he is thus excluding transgender persons from these pursuits. Where the hell did you get this bullshit from? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/15 "2017-08-04T02:10:26Z")
> [@](#): > > …But thanks for not understanding a word i said. Does anyone? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/16 "2017-08-04T02:12:36Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Where the hell did you get this bullshit from? > **[Trump Announces He Won’t Let Transgender People Serve in the Military](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/trump-announces-he-wont-let-transgender-people-serve-in-the-military/)** > > He said he couldn't "accept or allow" it. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/17 "2017-08-04T02:13:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does anyone? If they didn’t they wouldn’t be so angry. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/18 "2017-08-04T02:17:14Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > So what’s your bullshit about “transgenders” (nice) having the right to destroy civilization? He’s saying that the purpose of the military is to destroy civilizations. Hence, since transgenders are not allowed in the military, they now don’t have the right to destroy civilizations. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/19 "2017-08-04T02:21:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > [Trump Announces He Won’t Let Transgender People Serve in the Military – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/trump-announces-he-wont-let-transgender-people-serve-in-the-military/) They’re in the military, [they’re not his minions.](http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/poll-lgbt-voters-support-clinton-over-trump-n653491) > [@](#): > > Seventy-two percent of registered LGBT voters support Clinton, compared to 20 percent who support Trump. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/20 "2017-08-04T02:33:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I didn’t realize a slam against 430 congresspersons and all media including Fox News and Drudge Report was a slam against the left. But thanks for not understanding a word i said. You are not understanding me. Slams against the “left” poison the well. Claiming “transgenders” want to destroy civilization is out of line. Perhaps trying to be more clear rather than cute will avoid people misunderstanding your intent. Additional comments about moderation should go by PM or ATMB. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733.md?page=2)