# Sanders and Paul against sanctions. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733 "2017-08-04T00:16:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/21 "2017-08-04T03:01:48Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Claiming “transgenders” want to destroy civilization is out of line. Look, we’re on the same side politically here, I think, but that’s not what he’s claiming. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/22 "2017-08-04T03:36:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m honestly sorry if that is an offensive term. I thought I was using the current revision of the PC Specification. Apparently I was on the revision that was valid from 12:30am July 29 2017 to 3:10pm August 3 2017. > > The leftists are upset that transgenders can’t be Trump minions anymore. Since he is hellbent on destroying civilizations with his armies, he is thus excluding transgender persons from these pursuits. Using the word the first time could be a honest mistake. Deliberately using it again after being told it’s offensive shows you want to be offensive. Don’t blame political correctness for the choice you’ve made. That’s the act of a coward. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/23 "2017-08-04T04:38:48Z")
Just thought I’d point out, since I didn’t see anyone else do so, this gem: > [@](#): > > Where is the non-interventionist left? Which implies that sanctions are identical with military intervention. Just a tad on the not-entirely-rational end of things, I believe. Also, I’m not clear on which segment of the public counts as the OBLIVIOUS ones. They might well be in agreement with this thread. One last thing, the number of votes a sitting President got, has no bearing on either how right or wrong he or she is on a given issue, nor should it have any affect at all on how the rest of the Senate and House decide to lead the country. Their job is not to follow the President. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/24 "2017-08-04T04:50:07Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > Just thought I’d point out, since I didn’t see anyone else do so, this gem: > Which implies that sanctions are identical with military intervention. Right. Sanctions are exactly what non-interventionists tend to support instead of going to war. It’s what gives teeth to negotiations without the thread of military action. Non-interventionist doesn’t mean naive peacenik. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/25 "2017-08-04T12:37:30Z")
When did Putin start being a hero to you, **Will**? Was it with his Ukraine invasion, or with the surprise election of his blackmailee? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/26 "2017-08-04T13:49:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Look, we’re on the same side politically here, I think, but that’s not what he’s claiming. Right. He’s claiming the left is defending having transgender soldiers, and US solders are destroying civilizations, so the left is defending the ability of transgender people to join in the civilization-destroying antics of the rest of the soldiery. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/27 "2017-08-04T14:48:27Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Hey! Why would you deny transgenders the same rights to destroy civilization as you have? The right to destroy civilization should be the same for everyone! People often keep implying that the line between a true believer and a troll is so hopelessly fuzzy that it is fundamentally impossible to distinguish between the two, so I should read every single word by every Doper with the full confidence that they all are being utterly sincere. Bullshit. There’s really no room there, at all, for his [**WF** ’s] statement to NOT be a complete and total trolling attempt. None. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Where the hell did you get this bullshit from? From his nether regions, no other place can suffice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/28 "2017-08-04T14:56:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > He’s saying that the purpose of the military is to destroy civilizations. Hence, since transgenders are not allowed in the military, they now don’t have the right to destroy civilizations. Transgendered folk have not been kicked out of the military, and are fortunate enough, at least for now, to participate in the alleged destruction of civilization. I actually doubt that Sir Tweetalot will get his way on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/29 "2017-08-04T15:03:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Using the word the first time could be a honest mistake. Deliberately using it again after being told it’s offensive shows you want to be offensive. Don’t blame political correctness for the choice you’ve made. That’s the act of a coward. I thought “transgender” was the commonly used term now. It’s offensive? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/30 "2017-08-04T15:04:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Transgendered folk have not been kicked out of the military, and are fortunate enough, at least for now, to participate in the alleged destruction of civilization. I actually doubt that Sir Tweetalot will get his way on this issue. I doubt he even remembers it. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/31 "2017-08-04T15:19:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When did Putin start being a hero to you, **Will**? Was it with his Ukraine invasion, or with the surprise election of his blackmailee? Yeah, America really detests rulers who invade other countries. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/32 "2017-08-04T15:41:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I thought “transgender” was the commonly used term now. It’s offensive? It’s commonly used as an adjective. Using it as a noun is often considered offensive. Similar to how “black people in the military” is OK while “blacks in the military” can be considered offensive. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/33 "2017-08-04T15:52:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [3 out of 5 voters support Russia sanctions.](https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/21/americans-show-bipartisan-support-russia-sanctions-poll-shows/) As usual, your understanding of what the average American supports is almost entirely out of joint with reality. > > Ugly, but wholly unsurprising coming from you. I am one of the “3 out of 5”. The Russians, by direction of Putin interefered with our voter registrations, ginned up stories about “33,000 emails” or some such bullshit, flooded the media with false “news stories”, etc etc etc. Damn right they interfered. And Trump, his cronies, and his family were in cahoots with them. They were interested, because they would get Trump as their puppet president and “Exxon” Tillerson as Sec of State. This latest vote was a continuation of already existing sanctions, and a toughening of them. And I support them. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/34 "2017-08-04T15:54:57Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > So what’s your bullshit about “transgenders” (nice) having the right to destroy civilization? They don’t need to. Everyone else is doing it for them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/35 "2017-08-04T16:16:48Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Yeah, America really detests rulers who invade other countries. It’s fine to condemn every country that invades another country. But it’s questionable to say _“It’s wrong when other countries invade somebody but it’s okay when my country does it.”_ And it’s equally questionable to say _“It’s wrong when my countries invades somebody but it’s okay when other countries do it.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/36 "2017-08-04T16:26:07Z")
This is kind of telling… alt-righters who don’t support Trump must still find a way to finger liberals as conspirators who want to destroy America. Trump doesn’t even bother to hide his transgressions, yet they continue to worry about liberal boogiemen. How about this? Gun sales have [decreased](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gun-sales-have-dropped-since-trumps-election-except-among-people-scared-of-his-administration/2017/03/05/03f5b522-ff6a-11e6-8f41-ea6ed597e4ca_story.html?utm_term=.fcb2a7a1aaad) under Trump. Gun distributors actually profit from 2nd Amendment paranoia. Blacks and LGBTs are buying guns to protect themselves from Trump supporters. Therefore, **liberals are good for the gun market!** ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/37 "2017-08-04T16:27:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Using the word the first time could be a honest mistake. Deliberately using it again after being told it’s offensive shows you want to be offensive. Don’t blame political correctness for the choice you’ve made. That’s the act of a coward. That doesn’t follow. Just because some people tell you something is offensive doesn’t mean that you’re required to accept that. You might decide these people are being overly PC, and that it’s not offensive to less hypersensitive people. [FTR, I’m not up on the latest transgender-related terminology, so I don’t know the extent to which using “transgender” as a noun may be offensive to non-PC people these days. What I’m disputing is the general notion that just because people tell you something is offensive that means any future use can be assumed to be intended to be offensive.] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/38 "2017-08-04T16:44:09Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > They don’t need to. Everyone else is doing it for them. Well, why should trans people have all the fun? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/39 "2017-08-04T18:39:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > They’re in the military, [they’re not his minions.](http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/poll-lgbt-voters-support-clinton-over-trump-n653491) All executive branch employees, and associated contractors, are now Trump’s minions. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Using the word the first time could be a honest mistake. Deliberately using it again after being told it’s offensive shows you want to be offensive. Don’t blame political correctness for the choice you’ve made. That’s the act of a coward. Yes, it takes a brave soul to remain on the cutting edge of all latest developments in political correctness. I mean what if your employer heard you were up to date on all the Correct Words, you could lose your job or any business you might have. I actually did notice I again used the term but it was too late to edit. If you notice, I used another term in the last part of that post. I did not proofread. The target of my posting is obviously authoritarian social democrats who love killing, like yourself, not transgender individuals. > [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > Just thought I’d point out, since I didn’t see anyone else do so, this gem: > Which implies that sanctions are identical with military intervention. > > Just a tad on the not-entirely-rational end of things, I believe. > > Also, I’m not clear on which segment of the public counts as the OBLIVIOUS ones. They might well be in agreement with this thread. > > One last thing, the number of votes a sitting President got, has no bearing on either how right or wrong he or she is on a given issue, nor should it have any affect at all on how the rest of the Senate and House decide to lead the country. Their job is not to follow the President. Their job is to represent the public (according to naive believers in representative democracy). Fully 40% of the public are being represented by 1.1% of the congress and no big media (dominated by power worshipers). > [@BigT](#): > > Right. Sanctions are exactly what non-interventionists tend to support instead of going to war. It’s what gives teeth to negotiations without the thread of military action. > > Non-interventionist doesn’t mean naive peacenik. Non-interventionist means do not intervene. Sanctions are interventionist. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When did Putin start being a hero to you, **Will**? Was it with his Ukraine invasion, or with the surprise election of his blackmailee? Putin is a horrible autocrat. It is a shame that the sanctions will hardly hurt him and instead endanger and impoverish millions of innocents. Congress is also a shame. > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > People often keep implying that the line between a true believer and a troll is so hopelessly fuzzy that it is fundamentally impossible to distinguish between the two, so I should read every single word by every Doper with the full confidence that they all are being utterly sincere. > > Bullshit. > > There’s really no room there, at all, for his [**WF** ’s] statement to NOT be a complete and total trolling attempt. None. > > From his nether regions, no other place can suffice. I assure you I am not trolling, unless stating my honest opinion to people I know will not agree is a form of trolling. I look back at around 15 years of military action and I see an organization that is singularly focused on destroying flawed but stable civilizations. Then I see the left’s outrage when a group of people are excluded from participating in the melee on the basis of one aspect of their identity. In my opinion, this is a grotesque situation. The left is more concerned with protecting a small group of some of the most privileged individuals in the entire world (the US military) over the large amount of victims of these same individuals. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I am one of the “3 out of 5”. The Russians, by direction of Putin interefered with our voter registrations, ginned up stories about “33,000 emails” or some such bullshit, flooded the media with false “news stories”, etc etc etc. Damn right they interfered. And Trump, his cronies, and his family were in cahoots with them. They were interested, because they would get Trump as their puppet president and “Exxon” Tillerson as Sec of State. This latest vote was a continuation of already existing sanctions, and a toughening of them. > > And I support them. Ok you have 430 congresspersons representing your propaganda-addled, perspective-deficient, conspiracy-minded, wealth-destroying, war-provoking, Obama-legacy-undermining opinion. Be happy. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s fine to condemn every country that invades another country. But it’s questionable to say _“It’s wrong when other countries invade somebody but it’s okay when my country does it.”_ And it’s equally questionable to say _“It’s wrong when my countries invades somebody but it’s okay when other countries do it.”_ Interesting non-sequiter. > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > This is kind of telling… alt-righters who don’t support Trump must still find a way to finger liberals as conspirators who want to destroy America. Trump doesn’t even bother to hide his transgressions, yet they continue to worry about liberal boogiemen. > > How about this? Gun sales have [decreased](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gun-sales-have-dropped-since-trumps-election-except-among-people-scared-of-his-administration/2017/03/05/03f5b522-ff6a-11e6-8f41-ea6ed597e4ca_story.html?utm_term=.fcb2a7a1aaad) under Trump. Gun distributors actually profit from 2nd Amendment paranoia. **Blacks** and \*\*LGBTs \*\*are buying guns to protect themselves from Trump supporters. Therefore, liberals are good for the gun market! My bolding. I wonder if you’ll be admonished for your use of the bolded words above. No I don’t. I have nothing in common with the alt-right, but nice smear attempt. Yes my liberal boogiemen include 430 congresspersons and all big media, including conservative media. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733/40 "2017-08-04T19:07:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s fine to condemn every country that invades another country. But it’s questionable to say _“It’s wrong when other countries invade somebody but it’s okay when my country does it.”_ And it’s equally questionable to say _“It’s wrong when my countries invades somebody but it’s okay when other countries do it.”_ It’d be kind of nice if _no_ country invaded another in the 21st century, and that includes my country. Putin is wearisome, but no worse morally than grinning little Bush. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-and-paul-against-sanctions/792733.md?page=3)