# Sanders told to leave restaurant - why no debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660 "2018-06-24T11:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/181 "2018-06-25T18:16:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’ve already made the argument. Ms. Sanders was discriminated against because of her political orientation, which is that of a Trump supporter. Cite? From what I read, she was booted because of her numerous perceived egregious lies and other statements in her role as Press Sec. I’ve seen nothing to indicate the proprietor boots customers due to their political beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/182 "2018-06-25T18:38:04Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Your political views are a choice. Being black, or gay, not so much. This is why laws protect those classes. Religion is a protected class and people do choose what religion they are. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/183 "2018-06-25T18:49:53Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Actually, one of the restaurant’s employees also made it public, but I’m not sure how much traction it would have gotten if Sanders hadn’t publicized it. Yeah, I’ve seen claims that the story was out in some form before Sanders tweeted about it, but her tweet was the first reference I saw and was what pushed the story into wide circulation. And it doesn’t make that much difference. Sanders’ tweet still comes off like “I’m staying above the fray, but I want everyone to know about that mean, rude person who threw me out of her restaurant.” Read it simply and you might think that Sanders is taking the high road; parse it and think for a few seconds, and she’s doing nothing of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/184 "2018-06-25T18:54:03Z")
I think I would have served her, and then quickly withdrawn the plate due to some possible, ah…irregularities in the preparation of her food. Which will be replaced just as soon as I can supervise another serving to ensure no such unauthorized ingredients are present. Just be another couple of minutes! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/185 "2018-06-25T19:22:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Experience has taught us that the Free Market does not, in fact, sort out these problems, at least not within any one person’s lifetime. Just look at any of the segregated businesses in the Jim Crow-era South. Yeah, well, Yelp didn’t exist in the Jim Crow era. And I would argue a helluva lot of things have gotten “sorted out” not only in my life time, but in my children’s lifetime. Progress isn’t moving at postbellum south pace anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/186 "2018-06-25T19:31:03Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Yeah, well, Yelp didn’t exist in the Jim Crow era. And I would argue a helluva lot of things have gotten “sorted out” not only in my life time, but in my children’s lifetime. Progress isn’t moving at postbellum south pace anymore. If you think the existence of Yelp would have been important during Jim Crow, then your underestimating of the Old Confederacy could use a small upgrade. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/187 "2018-06-25T19:37:59Z")
Oops, that should be “understanding,” of course. Missed the edit window. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/188 "2018-06-25T19:41:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The baker in question did not refuse service to gay customers, period. He offered to sell them any other cake. This is factually incorrect. He offered them any other baked goods, but NOT a cake. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/189 "2018-06-25T19:43:06Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > If you think the existence of Yelp would have been important during Jim Crow, then your underestimating of the Old Confederacy could use a small upgrade. I’m not saying that. What I’m getting at is, even if we don’t figure in the civil rights movment, society has fundamentally changed in the last 50 years. It wasn’t possible to effectively destroy a business overnight without committing arson back then. It is now. Communication totally changed, and transportation homogenized society immensely. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/190 "2018-06-25T19:43:32Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > The difference, I believe, is that discriminating against people in matters over which they have no control is fundamentally different than discriminating against people for their individual actions. The first is manifestly unfair, the latter the very definition of fair. > > A person has no control over the colour of their skin, their gender, their ethnicity - but they damn sure can control who they work for, what causes they espouse, what opinions they express. I’ll discriminate against Nazis, fascists, and this current administration all night, all day, and twice on Sunday. Yes. Isn’t it encouraging to see someone kicked out of a restaurant for something other than the color of their skin or the god they choose to worship? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/191 "2018-06-25T20:00:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Legally, probably nothing, but again, this is about whether or not she took the high ground. This version of the high road reminds me of another attempt at taking the high road: MAL Sure. It would be humiliating, having to lie there while the better man refuses to spill your blood. Mercy is the mark of a great man. (MAL stabs Atherton) MAL Guess I’m just a good man. (Stabs him again) MAL Well, I’m all right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/192 "2018-06-25T20:23:30Z")
Do not pervert _Serenity_ to your partisan purposes! You will only get _one_ warning! ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/193 "2018-06-25T20:26:39Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > This is factually incorrect. He offered them any other baked goods, but NOT a cake. > > Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Ahem… Per [The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/us/supreme-court-baker-same-sex-marriage.html) report: > [@](#): > > …Mr. Phillips shut down the conversation as soon as he heard that a gay couple was getting married. > > “I’ll make you birthday cakes, shower cakes, cookies, brownies,” Mr. Phillips recalled saying. “I just can’t make a cake for a same-sex wedding.”… You are factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/194 "2018-06-25T20:37:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Sanders was totally reacting to the big social media storm that she started, seriously? Since you’re the only person saying that, it must be your position. I personally doubt that time travel was involved but I’d be willing to read any evidence you put forward to support your assertion that it was. > [@](#): > > “Preemptive retaliation” is a term I came up with when the U.S. defended itself against Iraq by attacking them first. It’s a tactic I’ve seen other times since then, including now, from you. So it’s just something you say in order to blame someone you disagree with. Physician, heal thyself! > [@](#): > > It’s just a way of saying that one side has no choice in their actions; all the choice, and therefore all the blame, belongs to someone else. Then stop doing it. > [@](#): > > I’m not defending the restaurant owner. She chose to ask Sanders to leave. I haven’t seen her try to deny this, or to avoid the consequences. I’m not entirely sure how I feel about her actions. She’s also not a public figure who speaks on behalf of my country. That last part is a common issue. The only way to avoid it is by public figures never saying anything political in public. That’s the policy for the royal family in the UK (although some of them do breach it, it’s very rare and never done by the queen), but it’s extremely restrictive on them and probably not even possible for a politician. > [@](#): > > But the OP of this thread claimed that Sanders took the high road. I find that ludicrous. She chose to tweet about this and should own the consequences of her actions as much as anyone else. I don’t find it ludicrous, since she was polite and left without making a fuss. Debateable, but not ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/195 "2018-06-25T20:45:52Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > “Preemptive retaliation” is a term I came up with when the U.S. defended itself against Iraq by attacking them first. It’s a tactic I’ve seen other times since then, including now, from you. > [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > So it’s just something you say in order to blame someone you disagree with. Physician, heal thyself! No. It’s something I say when people try to justify aggressive actions (or words) by claiming they’re only defending themselves from something that hasn’t happened yet. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/196 "2018-06-25T20:49:33Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > I don’t find it ludicrous, since \*\*she was polite and left without making a fuss. \*\*Debateable, but not ludicrous. First time for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/197 "2018-06-25T20:59:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is factually incorrect. The baker in question did not refuse service to gay customers, period. He offered to sell them any other cake. He refused to sell gay people a wedding cake on the basis that they were gay. I don’t know why you are compelled to contort yourself into pretzels to avoid this fact which, to my recollection, the baker is quite up-front about. > [@](#): > > Then we don’t disagree. Merchants should be allowed to discriminate against those who support things they find distasteful, or with which they disagree. Even if they are gay, or Trump supporters. That isn’t what I’ve said. People should not be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, religion, age, national origin, and sexual orientation by businesses. SHS was not being denied service for any of those reasons, so that’s up to the business. On the other hand, you seem to be in favor of businesses being allowed to discriminate on at least the issue of sexual orientation, and perhaps other factors that we haven’t talked about. That is the difference between you and I. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/198 "2018-06-25T21:05:42Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > I don’t find it ludicrous, since she was polite and left without making a fuss. Debateable, but not ludicrous. > [@running\_coach](#): > > First time for everything. She tweeted about it to 3 million followers. How is this not making a fuss? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/199 "2018-06-25T21:07:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I think I would have served her, and then quickly withdrawn the plate due to some possible, ah…irregularities in the preparation of her food. Which will be replaced just as soon as I can supervise another serving to ensure no such unauthorized ingredients are present. Just be another couple of minutes! I read this strategy somewhere (the twitter thread maybe?): seat her party, take their orders, and never deliver the food to them. Whenever they ask where their orders are, say, “I’ll have to get back to you on that,” and then never do. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/200 "2018-06-25T21:25:09Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > No, it isn’t. She was publically refused service and ordered to leave the premises for political reasons. No, she was not publicly refused service. No, she was not ordered to leave the premises. And she certainly wasn’t asked to leave for “political reasons”. She was politely and privately requested to leave and by her own admission agreed to do so. And it was because she is a horrible person who does horrible things, not “political reasons”. Awesomely nebulous phrase there tho; why it could almost be applied to eveything! :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=11)