# Sanders told to leave restaurant - why no debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660 "2018-06-24T11:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/201 "2018-06-25T21:28:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > A business can’t refuse service on the base of race, sex, creed, color, ethnicity, and (depending on state law) sexual orientation. But if they want to refuse service to an individual customer for reasons unrelated to any of the protected categories, that’s still their right. > > As I understand it, British common law says a business open to the public can’t turn away customers, period. We’ve never adopted that standard here in the U.S. I think we haven’t adopted that standard here in the UK, either. At least not in England (other parts of the UK have some different laws, so it might be different there). There are specific positions which confer right of entry to anyone in them while acting as that position, e.g. environmental health officer. There are some protected groups with superior rights who can’t be turned away for that reason. For example, it’s illegal to refuse to serve people because they’re female but legal to refuse to serve people because they’re male. It’s illegal to refuse to serve people because they’re not heterosexual but legal to refuse to serve people because they are heterosexual. Etc. But other than protected groups, it’s legal to refuse up until the point at which a contract is formed. So if I owned a shop I could, for example, refuse to sell you stuff because I didn’t like the colour of your shoes or because I was reading a book or because I flipped a coin and it came down heads or for no reason. But if you and I agreed to a sale a contract would be formed and if I then refused I’d be in breach of contract. The existence of things for sale and stated prices doesn’t constitute a contract in UK law - legally that’s just an invitation to negotiate a contract, not a contract in itself. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/202 "2018-06-25T21:37:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, she was not publicly refused service. No, she was not ordered to leave the premises. And she certainly wasn’t asked to leave for “political reasons”. > > She was politely and privately requested to leave and by her own admission agreed to do so. > > And it was because she is a horrible person who does horrible things, not “political reasons”. Awesomely nebulous phrase there tho; why it could almost be applied to eveything! :rolleyes: She was refused service in a public place (which is being publically refused service). The refusal was made public, which makes it public. So it was public twice over. She was ordered to leave the premises. The restaurant owner may well have phrased the order politely, but the order was made. She was refused service and ordered to leave because of her political position. That’s as political as a reason can get - it was literally because of her job as a politician. I’ve no doubt that some of the more extreme Republicans think that Democrat officials are horrible people who do horrible things. Politics appears to very often reach extraordinary levels of partisanship in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/203 "2018-06-25T21:42:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > She tweeted about it to 3 million followers. How is this not making a fuss? Because tweeting things is commonly treated as routine nowadays. Much more routine than, for example, talking to your neighbour. It’s not my cup of tea, but it is common custom and so doing it is not making a fuss. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/204 "2018-06-25T21:49:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > No. It’s something I say when people try to justify aggressive actions (or words) by claiming they’re only defending themselves from something that hasn’t happened yet. Which is what you’re doing by saying it. Unlike Sanders, who was not aggressive and was defending herself from something that was going to happen (the story getting out) and had in fact already happened (someone else tweeted about it hours before she did). Do you never take precautions regarding things that you have very good reason to believe are going to happen or have already started to happen, or even for things that might happen? ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/205 "2018-06-25T21:58:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Quartz, you seem confused about the principle of tolerance that underlies modern liberalism. It’s basically this: > > As long as you’re not hurting anyone, I should put up with your special self. > > So if you’re marrying another dude, you’re not hurting anyone, so I should put up with your special self and bake you a goddamn cake already. > > If you’re enabling our government as they put children in cages and separate them from their parents by the thousands, you’re hurting someone, so I don’t have to put up with your special self and serve you a goddamn meal already. So basically modern liberalism is all about making shit up. Don’t like the definition of tolerance? We’ll make up our own, which specifically gives us the right to be intolerant! Not surprising, since they are constantly inventing new definitions for gender, race, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/206 "2018-06-25T22:05:11Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > She was refused service and ordered to leave because of her political position. That’s as political as a reason can get - it was literally because of her job as a politician. > > I’ve no doubt that some of the more extreme Republicans think that Democrat officials are horrible people who do horrible things. Politics appears to very often reach extraordinary levels of partisanship in the USA. There is a HUGE difference between just being a Republican and being Sarah Sanders (vis a vis her role in this administration). It’s the way she does her job and the person she defends on a daily basis that justifies treating her as a pariah. I don’t see any other way she’ll learn. To call what she does as merely “her job as a politician” ignores the depth of depravity, dishonesty and corruption of this administration. It’s not a matter of degree, with these guys, it’s a whole different thing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/207 "2018-06-25T22:14:24Z")
“They hate that cop for doing his job!” “He shot an unarmed man who was already handcuffed and in custody!” “FOR DOING HIS JOB!” :rolleyes: I find **i can’t think of a name** ’s arguments unconvincing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/208 "2018-06-25T22:15:12Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > So basically modern liberalism is all about making shit up. Don’t like the definition of tolerance? We’ll make up our own, which specifically gives us the right to be intolerant! > > Not surprising, since they are constantly inventing new definitions for gender, race, etc. It’s called the [paradox of tolerance.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) It’s been known about since 1945, given the quote on that page. It is the right who has tried to redefine tolerance to mean tolerance of intolerance. It’s just an attempt to attack liberals by claiming hypocrisy, while ignoring what we’ve actually bee Which is exactly the point of your post. It doesn’t actually address the topic. It doesn’t set forth an argument. It just accuses liberals (and one in particular) of hypocrisy. And then extends it, likely to try and move the topic to either gender or race. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/209 "2018-06-25T22:19:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There is a HUGE difference between just being a Republican and being Sarah Sanders (vis a vis her role in this administration). It’s the way she does her job and the person she defends on a daily basis that justifies treating her as a pariah. I don’t see any other way she’ll learn. > > To call what she does as merely “her job as a politician” ignores the depth of depravity, dishonesty and corruption of this administration. It’s not a matter of degree, with these guys, it’s a whole different thing. Yep. Had a longer post that said the same thing is much more words. I’ll include some of it, so it doesn’t go to waste: “Trump is not normal. He is not someone we politically disagree with. Sanders is not normal. Never before in our history as a country have we had to treat the President or the White House Press Secretary as an unreliable source. Never have we had those who rails against freedom of the press. Never before in our history, or in the history of the modern world, have people had concentration camps for children. And that’s just the recent stuff that occurred to me just then.” It is ridiculous to try and equivocate, and pretend this is just about politics. Sanders is merely facing consequences for her actions. If someone tries this on someone for just being a liberal or a conservative, I’ll decry it. But that is not what is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/210 "2018-06-25T22:28:46Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > Because tweeting things is commonly treated as routine nowadays. Much more routine than, for example, talking to your neighbour. > > It’s not my cup of tea, but it is common custom and so doing it is not making a fuss. So in your estimation sending a tweet to more than 3 million followers which is immediately picked up by the media and broadcast to the entire world is exactly the same as talking to your neighbor? Not in my world, it isn’t. > [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > Which is what you’re doing by saying it. > > Unlike Sanders, who was not aggressive and was defending herself from something that was going to happen (the story getting out) and had in fact already happened (someone else tweeted about it hours before she did). > > Do you never take precautions regarding things that you have very good reason to believe are going to happen or have already started to happen, or even for things that might happen? What did the other tweet say that she had to defend herself against? I have no idea and I bet you don’t, either, because almost no one saw it, since the restaurant waiter or whoever it was doesn’t have 3+ million followers and the attention of the national media. This was vindictive whining casting aspersions on the restaurant and hoping to damage its business, all done contrary to law on an official government account. And she was apparently still “taking precautions” the next morning when she slammed the restaurant in an official White House press conference, and her boss joined in on Twitter, Trump tweeting that the restaurant has “filthy” windows and canopies and therefore must be equally dirty on the inside. A real class act, those two. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/211 "2018-06-25T22:31:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yep. Had a longer post that said the same thing is much more words. I’ll include some of it, so it doesn’t go to waste: > > “Trump is not normal. He is not someone we politically disagree with. Sanders is not normal. Never before in our history as a country have we had to treat the President or the White House Press Secretary as an unreliable source. Never have we had those who rails against freedom of the press. Never before in our history, or in the history of the modern world, have people had concentration camps for children. And that’s just the recent stuff that occurred to me just then.” > > It is ridiculous to try and equivocate, and pretend this is just about politics. Sanders is merely facing consequences for her actions. > > If someone tries this on someone for just being a liberal or a conservative, I’ll decry it. But that is not what is going on here. I have heard similar things about every President in the last 25 years. 1. Clinton is terrible, ruining the country, why I might have not liked Carter’s leadership ability, but he was a good man and faithful to his wife. 2. Bush II is terrible, ruining the country. Reagan was bad, but at least he wasn’t lying to get us into wars and kill our troops. 3. Obama is terrible, ruining the country. Clinton was bad, but at least he was an American and didn’t bow to Saudi princes. And he’s a Muslim! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/212 "2018-06-25T22:37:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Do not pervert _Serenity_ to your partisan purposes! You will only get _one_ warning! Guy’s not fit to make Jayne’s bunk. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/213 "2018-06-25T22:55:10Z")
I for one am outraged that Ms. Huckabee Sanders was denied her farm-to-table dinner. This is something vital to her health & wellbeing, not something frivolous like filling a birth control prescription. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/214 "2018-06-25T23:06:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “Americans are waking up to the realization, as Germans once did, that 1/3rd of their people would destroy another 1/3rd, while another 1/3rd watched” - Werner Herzog > > (That latter third are those upset about “civility”) That’s a quote from Werner \*Twertzog \*. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/215 "2018-06-25T23:11:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have heard similar things about every President in the last 25 years. > > 1. Clinton is terrible, ruining the country, why I might have not liked Carter’s leadership ability, but he was a good man and faithful to his wife. > > 2. Bush II is terrible, ruining the country. Reagan was bad, but at least he wasn’t lying to get us into wars and kill our troops. > > 3. Obama is terrible, ruining the country. Clinton was bad, but at least he was an American and didn’t bow to Saudi princes. And he’s a Muslim! Sure, a lot of presidents have been criticized, both justly and unjustly. It’s beyond dispute, however, that this current S.O.B. is _actually_ incompetent, ignorant, dangerous, and obnoxious. He is an embarrassment like no previous president has ever been. In years past you’d hear things like “I don’t know why people on the other side hate Obama/Bush/Clinton so much.” You don’t hear that about Trump. There is no question why he is reviled. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/216 "2018-06-25T23:17:16Z")
> [@chula](#): > > That’s a quote from Werner \*Twertzog > \*. :smack: Dammit, I even was telling myself “Don’t misattribute it, JT!” And then I misattributed it. You are correct, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/217 "2018-06-25T23:35:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If someone tries this on someone for just being a liberal or a conservative, I’ll decry it. But that is not what is going on here. It should be noted that the other members of her party, who are probably conservative and Republican also, were not asked to leave. They left anyhow, of course, but the request was to Sanders alone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/218 "2018-06-25T23:37:45Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > So basically modern liberalism is all about making shit up. There’s stiff competition for the award, but you just posted the single most ironic thing on the Internet today. Congratulations! ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/219 "2018-06-25T23:54:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > “They hate that cop for doing his job!” > “He shot an unarmed man who was already handcuffed and in custody!” > “FOR DOING HIS JOB!” > > :rolleyes: > > I find **i can’t think of a name** ’s arguments unconvincing. That’s because you’re making up unconvincing arguments and falsely claiming they’re mine. Is that the sort of person you want to be? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/220 "2018-06-25T23:57:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > […]In years past you’d hear things like “I don’t know why people on the other side hate Obama/Bush/Clinton so much.” You don’t hear that about Trump. There is no question why he is reviled. The scary thing is that yes, you do hear this. There is a sizable group of people who do not understand what the rest of us find objectionable about the man or his administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=12)