# Sanders told to leave restaurant - why no debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660 "2018-06-24T11:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/221 "2018-06-25T23:57:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And she was apparently still “taking precautions” the next morning when she slammed the restaurant in an official White House press conference, and her boss joined in on Twitter, Trump tweeting that the restaurant has “filthy” windows and canopies and therefore must be equally dirty on the inside. A real class act, those two. I should mention that I had a look at the restaurant via a good close-up picture on Google Maps and it’s spotless. If Trump sees dirty windows and canopies he might need an eye exam. Or if he has trouble distinguishing clean from dirty, an object lesson in “dirty” is this: [Trump Tower: Still a Dump](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a50060/someone-barely-cleaned-up-the-trump-dump/). The trash in the garden was finally thrown out, though. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/222 "2018-06-26T00:05:52Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It should be noted that the other members of her party, **who are probably conservative and Republican** also, were not asked to leave. They left anyhow, of course, but the request was to Sanders alone. **bolding** mine Assumes facts not in evidence… and based upon statements from Mike Huckabee not true. Further his statement indicates this drama may have further developments. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/223 "2018-06-26T00:29:47Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > **bolding** mine > > Assumes facts not in evidence… and **based upon statements from Mike Huckabee not true.** Further his statement indicates this drama may have further developments. Huckabee is no more truthful than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/224 "2018-06-26T00:53:13Z")
If I walk into a restaurant and they refuse to serve me because I’m a Jew, that’s wrong. If Michael Cohen walks into a restaurant and they refuse to serve him because he is an ass-hat, that is not prejudice. There is a BIG difference between these two things! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/225 "2018-06-26T01:02:16Z")
To be honest, if I go with a party and one of us is asked to leave, odds approach 100% that all of us will leave. So arguing that only SHS was asked to leave may be correct on point, but not in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/226 "2018-06-26T01:11:10Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > To be honest, if I go with a party and one of us is asked to leave, odds approach 100% that all of us will leave. So arguing that only SHS was asked to leave may be correct on point, but not in practice. Well, sure, but the argument is about what, specifically, the restaurant owner objected to about Sarah Sanders. If I go to a restaurant with a black friend, and the management throws him out for being black, I’m also leaving. But I can’t use the fact that \*I \*didn’t get my dinner as evidence that the restaurant owner is prejudiced against white people. If there were a bunch of Republicans at the table, but the restaurant owner only asked Sanders to leave, then it seems apparent that the restaurant owner’s problem is specifically with Sanders, and not with Republicans in general. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/227 "2018-06-26T01:36:32Z")
We have a lawless, heartless, reckless, would-be-authoritarian dictatorship in charge of our country. I think as part of the resistance, it’s the duty of every member of the public to do what they can to make clear to the prime policy makers and their spokespeople that they will not be treated as respectable members of society. They will not be normalized. Now, there has been some attempt here to justify the legality of this kind of action. Yes, obviously, beyond a certain group of protected classes, businesses do have the legal right to refuse service on whatever basis they choose. But we as the public get to judge their choices. I think it’s fine for Trump supporters to express their outrage at the act on Twitter (I don’t think it’s fine for people who have never actually eaten at the restaurant to give falsified Yelp ratings, but that’s Yelp’s business to fix). It’s also fine for people who oppose the administration to support it. Kick someone out for being the spokesman for the Trump administration? Do it, and we the public get to judge you, and punish or reward you accordingly, with for example Twitter statements or demonstrations or withholding or granting our custom. Kick someone out for speaking Spanish? Do it, and we the public get to judge you, and punish or reward you accordingly, with for example Twitter statements or demonstrations or withholding or granting our custom. Kick someone out for wearing a MAGA hat? Do it, and we the public get to judge you, and punish or reward you accordingly, with for example Twitter statements or demonstrations or withholding or granting our custom. Kick someone out for carrying a firearm? Do it, and we the public get to judge you, and punish or reward you accordingly, with for example Twitter statements or (unarmed) demonstrations or withholding or granting our custom. It’s fair game. And then we also get to decide whether to add any of those groups to our list of protected classes in the law. And we the public also get to judge individuals by what new protected classes they support or not. That’s how free speech works. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/228 "2018-06-26T01:45:32Z")
In other words, we get to judge your actions, even if they are within your rights, and we get to make living in society less comfortable if we disapprove. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/229 "2018-06-26T01:47:44Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > That’s because you’re making up unconvincing arguments and falsely claiming they’re mine. No, you’re making up unconvincing arguments and falsely claiming that they’re convincing. They aren’t. I’m just pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/230 "2018-06-26T01:50:46Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > …Is that the sort of person you want to be? Mom? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/231 "2018-06-26T02:51:17Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It should be noted that the other members of her party, who are **probably conservative and Republican** also, were not asked to leave. They left anyhow, of course, but the request was to Sanders alone. > [@Iggy](#): > > **bolding** mine > > Assumes facts not in evidence… and based upon statements from Mike Huckabee not true. Further his statement indicates this drama may have further developments. It is customary that when someone says “probably” it describes “facts not in evidence.” What’s your point of “correcting”? To make it clear the bolding in the first quote is Iggy’s. ---
**Author:** ![Haldurson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Haldurson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haldurson)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/232 "2018-06-26T03:10:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Sarah Sanders was told to leave a restaurant (so she alleges) because she works for Trump. Given the debate over the baker and the gay couple, I’m surprised to see no thread here. I think that your mention of the baker is a great point. That said, when she was asked to leave, she actually left, leaving any possibility of debate moot. She could have tried to stand up to the restaurateurs, and demanded service, but she decided not to push the issue. I agree with you that they should have served her. A person has the right to their political stance, no matter how odious, and the way to attack illegal actions on the part of the current administration is in the courts and the press. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/233 "2018-06-26T03:23:59Z")
> [@Haldurson](#): > > I think that your mention of the baker is a great point. That said, when she was asked to leave, she actually left, leaving any possibility of debate moot. She could have tried to stand up to the restaurateurs, and demanded service, but she decided not to push the issue. I agree with you that they should have served her. A person has the right to their political stance, no matter how odious, and the way to attack illegal actions on the part of the current administration is in the courts and the press. How do you know the restaurant owner wasn’t acting on her Humanist beliefs? Or she’s a Christian who does not want to serve an unrepentant sinner? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/234 "2018-06-26T03:24:27Z")
Sorry coming in late to this. There was no great debate I can find when Biden was refused service for political reasons from a Virginia bakery. Why should the board be obligated to debate when a Republican in Virginia is refused? It was a pretty similar situation. I don’t recall Biden taking to twitter and bashing the bakery nor did Obama get involved. I don’t think either ever made official mention, the only reason the story was made public was the baker giving an interview. Many on the right wing didn’t appear to be bothered by it. I don’t remember vocal outcry from any Republicans. The baker made a bundle afterwords selling freedom cookies. Let’s make this about liberal hypocrisy though? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/235 "2018-06-26T03:34:09Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > … > > As for the argument that it doesn’t count because Sanders is so evil, the counterculture started using that argument when I was a kid. People in favor of the US Vietnam policy were not mistaken, they were _MURDERERS_. It hasn’t become any more convincing as a form of real argument to me since. People who supported the Vietnam war early on turned out to be mistaken. It was not their fault things turned out badly for everyone. People who supported or continued to support the same war after it became clear how things were going, were indeed supporting murder. They didn’t pull any triggers or drop any Agent Orange, they weren’t murderers as such, but supporting outright murder doesn’t “spin” well no matter what. If you’re not convinced, it’s you who has a problem. Whether such an argument applies to this situation is a different question. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/236 "2018-06-26T04:21:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have heard similar things about every President in the last 25 years. > > 1. Clinton is terrible, ruining the country, why I might have not liked Carter’s leadership ability, but he was a good man and faithful to his wife. > > 2. Bush II is terrible, ruining the country. Reagan was bad, but at least he wasn’t lying to get us into wars and kill our troops. > > 3. Obama is terrible, ruining the country. Clinton was bad, but at least he was an American and didn’t bow to Saudi princes. And he’s a Muslim! …here is an official statement from the President of the United States of America from yesterday. > [@The President of the United States of America](#): > > We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents… > The president is openly calling for the dismantling of due process. He also told a bald-face lie. And that was just one tweet. Today the President of the United States said a black women has low IQ, described another Senator as being in a “near-drunken state”, and declared that a hearing into private text messages called by congress should be broadcast on live TV. The attacks from the President on a private company will put a chilling effect on anyone else who chooses to speak out against the President and his Regime. And here’s the thing. Its fucking Tuesday. We are in for more of the same tomorrow. This is the world that we live in. This isn’t fucking normal. This isn’t fucking business as usual. You can pretend as much as you like that Clinton and Obama and the Bushes were “just the same.” But you would be wrong. Not subjectively wrong, objectively wrong. This is not the same as you’ve heard over the last 25 years. There is no basis for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/237 "2018-06-26T05:48:39Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Ahem… > > Per [The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/us/supreme-court-baker-same-sex-marriage.html) report: > You are factually incorrect. Point conceded. I had only heard the other version, not his recollection. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/238 "2018-06-26T06:01:31Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > The difference, I believe, is that discriminating against people in matters over which they have no control is fundamentally different than discriminating against people for their individual actions. The first is manifestly unfair, the latter the very definition of fair. > > A person has no control over the colour of their skin, their gender, their ethnicity - but they damn sure can control who they work for, what causes they espouse, what opinions they express. I’ll discriminate against Nazis, fascists, and this current administration all night, all day, and twice on Sunday. I’m not really sure yet where I stand on this incident with Sanders, but I do have to point out that while I’m in agreement with the general sentiment, the argument above falls to pieces when you consider the fact that religion is a protected class, yet religion is something that people DO have control over. Religion is a set of practices and beliefs that you _choose_ to follow. And where do you really - I mean _really_ - draw the line between a religion and just someone’s own individual beliefs? And what if someone’s personal beliefs - and their behavior - is extremely objectionable, but they use religion to justify it? ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/239 "2018-06-26T07:43:50Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I’m not really sure yet where I stand on this incident with Sanders, but I do have to point out that while I’m in agreement with the general sentiment, the argument above falls to pieces when you consider the fact that religion is a protected class, yet religion is something that people DO have control over. Religion is a set of practices and beliefs that you _choose_ to follow. And where do you really - I mean _really_ - draw the line between a religion and just someone’s own individual beliefs? And what if someone’s personal beliefs - and their behavior - is extremely objectionable, but they use religion to justify it? I would say that one’s right to practice their religion/personal beliefs/etc ENDS where it interferes with someone else’s rights, health, or safety. You have the right to free expression. You do not have the right to yell “Fire” in a crowded theater. You have the right to practice your religion. You do not have the right to deny same-sex couples marriage licenses on that basis. You have the right to believe all Muslims are subhuman terrorists. You do not have the right to deny them jobs, housing, and so forth. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/240 "2018-06-26T11:20:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … > The president is openly calling for the dismantling of due process. He also told a bald-face lie. > … Persons appearing at a border to request entry are not automatically entitled to due process. Immigration officers have broad authority to refuse entry to persons at a border checkpoint. And this is not just the United States. This is common throughout the world. Canada border officers routinely [refuse entry](https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/402/~/entering-the-u.s.-and-canada-with-dui-offenses) to persons with certain minor criminal convictions such as a DUI, for example. And agents at US embassies can deny a visa application and the applicant has no right to appeal. No court hearing. No due process. And the [SCOTUS ruled](https://content.next.westlaw.com/Document/I8151667c14f011e598db8b09b4f043e0/View/FullText.html?contextData=(sc.Default)&transitionType=Default&firstPage=true&bhcp=1) that even a US citizen spouse cannot bring a due process claim on behalf of a non-citizen spouse whose visa application was denied. It seems a rather odd argument that persons who enter the United States at some point other than a port of entry would have a greater right to fight their removal than someone who did apply for entry at a proper port of entry. The narrow exception to routine removal without a hearing is for asylum applicants. They need to make a cognizable claim of a [well founded fear of persecution](https://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/immigration-law/asylum/fear_persecution_claim.htm) based upon one of the recognized categories eligible for protection. Even then an asylum applicant is [not entitled to](https://www.npr.org/2018/02/25/588646667/without-a-lawyer-asylum-seekers-struggle-with-confusing-legal-processes) a government funded lawyer. Like it or not, immigration has long been an area of law where due process rights cannot generally be enforced. This isn’t a Trump thing or an Obama thing. And it could be changed but it would require politicians to actually sit down together and work on reforming the system without regard to who is going to get the credit or blame for various changes. In other words, it is highly unlikely to change anytime soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=13)