# Sanders told to leave restaurant - why no debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660 "2018-06-24T11:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/521 "2018-07-02T06:51:30Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Where I come from, we have a charter of rights and freedoms that protects individuals against discrimination. I used to look up to Bill Cosby when I was a kid. I still have some respect for what he used to stand for, even though he’s a shell of man now. I would probably serve him because that’s the way I roll. I don’t know who Milo and Richard are. …would you serve Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/522 "2018-07-02T08:53:21Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Where I come from, we have a charter of rights and freedoms that protects individuals against discrimination. I used to look up to Bill Cosby when I was a kid. I still have some respect for what he used to stand for, even though he’s a shell of man now. I would probably serve him because that’s the way I roll. I don’t know who Milo and Richard are. Canada, right? It’s a long document, could you point out the section that would limit the right of the restaurant owner to deny service to SHS, especially as the Charter is written as a limit on government action, and not that of private citizens? You’ve been given the information regarding Milo and Spencer, yet all you took from the post was “What was the question about Bill Cosby?” How was your vacation? Are they always that short in Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/523 "2018-07-02T09:28:08Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > I think we haven’t adopted that standard here in the UK, either. At least not in England (other parts of the UK have some different laws, so it might be different there). > > There are specific positions which confer right of entry to anyone in them while acting as that position, e.g. environmental health officer. > > There are some protected groups with superior rights who can’t be turned away for that reason. For example, it’s illegal to refuse to serve people because they’re female but legal to refuse to serve people because they’re male. It’s illegal to refuse to serve people because they’re not heterosexual but legal to refuse to serve people because they are heterosexual. Etc. I know this was pages ago, but… cite? I’m pretty sure it’s not actually legal to refuse to serve people because they’re heterosexual or male in the UK either. It’s protected characteristics (sexuality, gender…), not protected class (homosexual, women) here as well, according to everything I’ve heard or been able to find. Yeah, there’s some loopholes for stuff like ‘women only’ gyms, but there are also ‘men only’ gyms, they’re just less common. You can certainly chuck people out for being unpleasant though. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/524 "2018-07-02T10:12:44Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Where I come from, we have a charter of rights and freedoms that protects individuals against discrimination. This isn’t about discrimination, it’s about judgement. They’re two separate things. The first is always wrong, the second isn’t. I’m a translator. Hebrew to English. A few years ago, I was hired by the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to translate all the posts for his official English-language Facebook page. I took the job, did it for a few months, and then quit - in part because it was too much hassle for not enough pay, but mostly because I didn’t feel comfortable working for a politician I neither agreed with nor particularly liked. Was I wrong to quit? Was I discriminating against Bibi Netanyahu? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/525 "2018-07-02T12:13:28Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Where I come from, we have a charter of rights and freedoms that protects individuals against discrimination. Since, for some reason, you’re using Canadian law on a US case, I looked it up. For starters, Section 15(1) of your Charter of Rights and Freedoms states “15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.” I don’t see anything in there, in particular, about political alignment or employer. It also goes on to say that the burden of proof, at least for this section is entirely on the claimant. In this case, that would be you. Statements like ‘well, I would serve any customer’ or ‘it’s seems like racism’ aren’t going to fly. Show us how she was discriminated against. If you’re going to claim sexism, then you would need to show that the restaurant has a pattern of kicking out females while not kicking out males that do the same thing. I asked earlier, but I’ll ask again. How many people have they kicked out, how many of them were female vs male? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/526 "2018-07-02T12:39:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …would you serve Hitler? No because Hitler must be sliced extremely thin. It’s a lot of work for a busy kitchen. There’s also the fact that Hitler ruins any dish it’s served with. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/527 "2018-07-02T14:42:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > To save you the trouble of scrolling up to other posts that you responded to already, I asked, just like Milo and Richard, if you would refuse service to him? > > Now that I have described Milo and Richard to you, based on those descriptions, would you welcome them, or Bill Cosby into your establishment? More to the point, what is your opinion about someone who would insist that you MUST serve Bill Cosby as long as he promises not to actually rape anyone in your restaurant? Would you say this argument holds water? Or would you say that Bill Cosby’s behavior outside the restaurant is sufficient to make a decision about whether or not to serve him? If you agree that saying “The fact that Bill Cosby is a rapist is irrelevant as long as he doesn’t actually rape anyone in the restaurant” doesn’t hold water, then you should also agree that saying “The fact that SHS is an asshole on TV is irrelevant as long as she isn’t an asshole while in the restaurant” doesn’t hold water either. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/528 "2018-07-02T15:19:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No because Hitler must be sliced extremely thin. It’s a lot of work for a busy kitchen. > There’s also the fact that Hitler ruins any dish it’s served with. Yeah - it overpowers the other dishes on teh plate until everything tastes like it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/529 "2018-07-02T16:33:45Z")
We have begun the _Anschluss_ upon the _Kartoffelpuffer_ ahead of seeking a final solution to the Kosher Mustard Problem. I’m sure the borsht on the other side of the plate won’t be a problem in the future. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/530 "2018-07-02T16:50:18Z")
And now heading into page 12 of debate about why there is no debate. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/531 "2018-07-02T17:32:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No because Hitler must be sliced extremely thin. It’s a lot of work for a busy kitchen. > > There’s also the fact that Hitler ruins any dish it’s served with. Best post of the day! ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/532 "2018-07-02T17:34:18Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Canada, right? It’s a long document, could you point out the section that would limit the right of the restaurant owner to deny service to SHS, especially as the Charter is written as a limit on government action, and not that of private citizens? > > You’ve been given the information regarding Milo and Spencer, yet all you took from the post was “What was the question about Bill Cosby?” > > How was your vacation? Are they always that short in Canada? Oh, you’re a funny one. And sarcastic too. They have WiFi here apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/533 "2018-07-02T17:37:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > This isn’t about discrimination, it’s about judgement. They’re two separate things. The first is always wrong, the second isn’t. > > I’m a translator. Hebrew to English. A few years ago, I was hired by the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to translate all the posts for his official English-language Facebook page. I took the job, did it for a few months, and then quit - in part because it was too much hassle for not enough pay, but mostly because I didn’t feel comfortable working for a politician I neither agreed with nor particularly liked. Was I wrong to quit? Was I discriminating against Bibi Netanyahu? You were working on a contract, I presume? You made the choice to quit, and no longer got paid. How is that a conflict? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/534 "2018-07-02T17:38:54Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Since, for some reason, you’re using Canadian law on a US case, I looked it up. > > For starters, Section 15(1) of your Charter of Rights and Freedoms states “15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.” > > I don’t see anything in there, in particular, about political alignment or employer. > > It also goes on to say that the burden of proof, at least for this section is entirely on the claimant. In this case, that would be you. Statements like ‘well, I would serve any customer’ or ‘it’s seems like racism’ aren’t going to fly. Show us how she was discriminated against. If you’re going to claim sexism, then you would need to show that the restaurant has a pattern of kicking out females while not kicking out males that do the same thing. > > I asked earlier, but I’ll ask again. How many people have they kicked out, how many of them were female vs male? I don’t know. Why don’t you tell us if you know so much. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/535 "2018-07-02T18:39:11Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I don’t know. Why don’t you tell us if you know so much. Wow, you’re not even attempting to defend your own statements. This is just pointless. You brought up racism. You brought up sexism. You mentioned that you would serve her. You mentioned Canadian law. You defend it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/536 "2018-07-02T19:23:51Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Oh, you’re a funny one. And sarcastic too. They have WiFi here apparently. Care to respond to the actual meat of the post? Or is your vacation too crazy? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/537 "2018-07-03T01:31:58Z")
Since no serious poster has made an attempt in multiple pages to explain why anyone (besides SHS) should be upset with the way she was treated and the thread has deteriorated into simply Biffster throwing out one-liners and _non sequiturs_, I am closing this thread. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=26)