# Sanders told to leave restaurant - why no debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660 "2018-06-24T11:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/61 "2018-06-24T17:33:50Z")
This morning Trump tweeted that we “cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country” and we should “immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came.” See, he’s just a normal president, equating asylum seekers with an invasion and calling for the suspension of due process. Much as every other president has done. I disagree with him, but I guess he has a right to be wrong, and that’s that. ETA: [https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1010900865602019329?s=19](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1010900865602019329?s=19) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/62 "2018-06-24T17:42:38Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s the people and the politicians who want to normalize and defend him that puts our county in grave peril. Exactly what “grave peril” are we in? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/63 "2018-06-24T17:49:24Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Exactly what “grave peril” are we in? Descending into an authoritarian dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/64 "2018-06-24T17:51:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Exactly what “grave peril” are we in? Attacking the press, blaming immigrants, advocating ignoring due process, falsly alleging voting fraud and attacking the judiciary, what could possibly go wrong? Plus, the normalization of lying, unethical behavior, and incompetence. Plus, dismantling environmental protection It doesn’t bother you that approximately 40% of the voters have embraced the deplorable? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/65 "2018-06-24T18:05:54Z")
It’s funny seeing her father, Mike Huckabee, commenting on the situation and classifying it as “bigotry” when he was an outspoken defender of “Freedom of Religion” laws that would specifically protect business owners who refused to serve blacks, gays, arabs, Jews, Muslims, or anyone else they say their religion says not to like. I guess it’s ‘freedom’ if you want to kick out certain people, but if it applies to his daughter then it’s suddenly ‘bigotry’ and wrong. It’s also interesting that exactly none of the people arguing in favor of discrimination in other threads, particularly the one about the Colorado Baker, are willing to argue in favor of it here. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/66 "2018-06-24T18:15:41Z")
In the end, I think you’ll find that restaurants, especially those serving alcohol, ARE granted very large leeway in refusing service. To any customer. At any time. For any reason. Flouncing on Twitter IS her only recourse. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/67 "2018-06-24T18:29:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > As I understand it, British common law says a business open to the public can’t turn away customers, period. We’ve never adopted that standard here in the U.S. Which has a basis in logic. If you hang a shingle, you are using the facilities of our society to earn your keep, which obligates you to treat people fairly. The gas station in Outthere Nevada could realistically be the critical oasis, where arbitrarily refusing service to someone in need could be a life-and-death decision that you, the business owner, should not be empowered to make. That such an outpost should be held to a different standard than any other business seems unreasonable. If you are reasonably certain that a specific party is going to steal from you, damage your property or pose some other material threat to your livelihood, I can see that you should have the right to bounce or bar them. But that is opposite of being arbitrary. Frankly, as much as I dislike SHS, if she was not being obnoxious or disruptive, the owner should have sucked it up and handled her service herself if the other workers were unwilling to. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/68 "2018-06-24T18:32:47Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > It’s funny seeing her father, Mike Huckabee, commenting on the situation and classifying it as “bigotry” when he was an outspoken defender of “Freedom of Religion” laws that would specifically protect business owners who refused to serve blacks, gays, arabs, Jews, Muslims, or anyone else they say their religion says not to like. I guess it’s ‘freedom’ if you want to kick out certain people, but if it applies to his daughter then it’s suddenly ‘bigotry’ and wrong. > > It’s also interesting that exactly none of the people arguing in favor of discrimination in other threads, particularly the one about the Colorado Baker, are willing to argue in favor of it here. This but it’s not funny. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/69 "2018-06-24T18:33:07Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Descending into an authoritarian dictatorship. The left made the same claim against President Bush, and the right made the same claim against President Obama. Neither of those claims had any merit, nor does this one. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/70 "2018-06-24T18:36:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The left made the same claim against President Bush, and the right made the same claim against President Obama. Neither of those claims had any merit, nor does this one. [Lesley Stahl: Trump admitted mission to “discredit” press](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lesley-stahl-donald-trump-said-attacking-press-to-discredit-negative-stories/) > [@](#): > > CBS “60 Minutes” correspondent Lesley Stahl has revealed a candid remark made to her by then-presidential candidate Donald Trump in 2016. Stahl told a group of fellow journalists at the Deadline Club Awards Dinner in New York City earlier this week that Mr. Trump had admitted his consistent attacks on the media were meant to “discredit” journalists so that negative stories about him would not be believed. Neither Bush nor Obama did this. What better way to start the process? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/71 "2018-06-24T18:49:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Sarah Sanders was told to leave a restaurant (so she alleges) because she works for Trump. Given the debate over the baker and the gay couple, I’m surprised to see no thread here. > > Original Twitter thread [here](https://twitter.com/i/moments/1010603153836969984?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email). CNN’s version is [here](https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/23/politics/sarah-sanders-restaurant-kicked-out/index.html). > > I agree with her that it bespeaks the petty-mindedness of the owner and am pleased to see her take the high road. > > The right of Free speech comes with the responsibility to respect the free speech of others. How is using her official, taxpayer funded Twitter account, in violation of federal regulations, taking the high road? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/72 "2018-06-24T19:00:03Z")
A state judge in New York has already ruled that people wearing MAGA hats can be barred from restaurants. I know it doesn’t apply to Virginia, but the case law is out there. > **[Bars Can Legally Refuse to Serve People in MAGA Hats](https://www.eater.com/2018/4/26/17286952/maga-hats-bars-discrimination)** > > Choosing to support Donald Trump is not protected under religious discrimination laws ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/73 "2018-06-24T19:09:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You really need step back and take a reality check. Current times are no more and no less normal than when Obama was in the White House or when Bush was in the White House or when Clinton was in the White House or when Bush or Reagan or Carter or Ford or Nixon or whoever were in the White House. You’ve really got to go back to WW2 for abnormality. Here is Mark Godwin on his “law” and the real world: > **[Op-Ed: Do we need to update Godwin's Law about the probability of comparison...](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-godwin-godwins-law-20180624-story.html)** > > Does Godwin’s Law need to be updated? Suspended? Repealed? > [@](#): > > My name gets cited in a lot of these discussions. And of course my ears are burning. It hasn’t mattered that I’ve explained Godwin’s Law countless times. Some critics on the left have blamed me for (supposedly) having shut down valid comparisons to the Holocaust or previous atrocities. Some on the right have insisted that I’m “PC” for having tweeted (a bit profanely) that it’s just fine to compare the white nationalists who plagued Charlottesville, Va., last year to Nazis. (I think they were mostly aspirational Nazi cos players.) > > I don’t take either strain of criticism too seriously. But I do want to stress that the question of evil, understood historically, is bigger than party politics. Godwin’s law is about remembering history well enough to draw parallels — sometimes with Hitler or with Nazis, sure — that are deeply considered. That matter. Sometimes those comparisons are going to be appropriate, and on those occasions Godwin’s Law should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter. > > So let me start another conversation here. Take the argument that our treatment of those seeking asylum at our border, including children, is not as monstrous as institutionalized genocide. **That may be true, but it’s not what you’d call a compelling defense. Similarly, saying (disingenuously) that the administration is just doing what immigration law demands sounds suspiciously like “we were just following orders.” That argument isn’t a good look on anyone.** You are falling for a balance fallacy, what is happening is not normal. And while it is not at the level of WWII abnormality, not minding the steps towards a nasty end is the reckless behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/74 "2018-06-24T19:36:49Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You really need step back and take a reality check. Current times are no more and no less normal than when Obama was in the White House or when Bush was in the White House or when Clinton was in the White House or when Bush or Reagan or Carter or Ford or Nixon or whoever were in the White House. You’ve really got to go back to WW2 for abnormality. Show me one other presidency that has never had a positive approval rating in his first term. That’s not normal. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/75 "2018-06-24T19:55:06Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > All the restaurant owner has to do is to hold a press conference and say that it never happened. Thread winner. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/76 "2018-06-24T20:02:41Z")
Wait until the photo of Sanders’ daughter crying her eyes out because she didn’t get dessert goes viral. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Manlob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Manlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manlob)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/77 "2018-06-24T20:33:32Z")
Compare to the case of the two men who sat in Starbuck’s without ordering and refused to leave when asked. Are the same people defending the store manager for that case and this one? It would be more reasonable if SHS was turned away at the door, but having the party sit down, wait for menus, wait for waiter to take order, start eating the appetizers, and then get asked to leave when the meal is almost ready caused a lot of unnecessary inconvenience. When OJ Simpson was refused service at a restaurant, I don’t think they let him sit down and order, then tantalized him by throwing him out right before the meal was ready. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/78 "2018-06-24T20:40:16Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > A state judge in New York has already ruled that people wearing MAGA hats can be barred from restaurants. I know it doesn’t apply to Virginia, but the case law is out there. > [Bars Can Legally Refuse to Serve People in MAGA Hats - Eater](https://www.eater.com/2018/4/26/17286952/maga-hats-bars-discrimination) Which makes sense, imo. Any business should not refuse service because of who you are but because of what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/79 "2018-06-24T20:41:42Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I still can’t wrap my head around someone thinking that a restaurant owner asking someone to leave, presumably politely and somewhat privately, is somehow the low road, and that someone then using her government position to publicly complain about it to the nation, stirring up opinion and retaliation against that business owner, is somehow the high road. I once saw Ann Coulter on the _Today_ show complaining about how the media was somehow withholding access from her and not giving her a forum to express her opinions. On the _Today_ show. Her argument falls apart if you stop and think about it for three seconds. That’s why some people don’t stop talking long enough for you to think about what they’ve been saying. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660/80 "2018-06-24T20:52:33Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Which makes sense, imo. Any business should not refuse service because of who you are but because of what you do. Some restaurants require that you wear a jacket and tie, and will provide with the proper attire in order to maintain their desired atmos. By the same token, hats of any sort are very out-of-place at any table, and if you insist on keeping your hat on, you are welcome to do that elsewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-told-to-leave-restaurant-why-no-debate/816660.md?page=5)