# Sanders v Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 24, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272 "2015-12-24T16:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/21 "2015-12-26T02:36:52Z")
Sanders hasn’t gone on the offensive much in the debates so far, but remember that there’s a big difference between a primary debate and a general election debate. He’s not attacking Clinton because, first, he agrees with her on a lot of issues (what differences there are are mostly a matter of priority), and second, in the likely event that she ends up as the candidate, he doesn’t want to hurt her chances of winning the general. Neither of those applies versus Trump (or whomever else the Republicans might nominate), and he is in fact getting in some zingers against him in speeches. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/22 "2015-12-26T03:54:17Z")
A few points: 1. Head-to-head polls today are nearly useless. They are essentially a name recognition contest and aren’t reflective of how people will vote in 11 months. Sanders still has a name recognition problem, so he is polling as mostly “some dude other than Trump I’ve vaguely heard of, but I don’t like Trump.” 2. Disliking one candidate isn’t sufficient to call an election. It is a choice between two candidates. And while Trump’s downsides are self-evident, Sanders is an undefined candidate. Trump will eat his lunch in defining him, and before its all over, Sanders will be a commie terrorist sympathizer who wants to take away your internal combustion engines and replace them with organic hemp composting communes. 3. We know that Americans are broadly dissatisfied with the direction of the country. Given the polarized views of Obama’s presidency, what are the odds that voters would say that Obama’s problem was that he wasn’t liberal enough? I say low. Compare that to Trump, who stands… Everywhere on the issues. One week he wants to ban Muslims, the next week he could say he wants to hand out abortions like candy. He could end up looking like the psychotic moderate compared to Sanders, but voters may key in on the word “moderate” as opposed to “psychotic.” 4. I think the odds of this race happening are zero. 5. If Sanders isn’t willing to attack a front runner at this point in the race, where he’s double digit points behind and the clock is ticking, he’s an incompetent politician. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/23 "2015-12-26T04:19:02Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The only way I can explain the level of support that Donald Trump has is that it part of the same phenomenon that we see when people get online anonymously and make threats and say horrible hateful things. Mob mentality and anonymity are a powerful combination. We seem to be developing a trollish sub-culture which drives some people to say things they don’t even believe in or care about, driven more by how much they know it will piss others people off, than any principle or strongly held opinion. I think this explains some of the current popularity of trump in the polls, and voting booths are just as anonymous as surveys. I don’t know how to judge where the upper limit is on the influence of this trend. > > So while I tend to agree with you, and would hope that you are right, I am in no way certain that you are. If anything Trump is probably being underpolled because respondents are afraid of being seen supporting him since he might not be “respectable”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/24 "2015-12-26T06:13:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > A few points: > > 1. Head-to-head polls today are nearly useless. They are essentially a name recognition contest and aren’t reflective of how people will vote in 11 months. Sanders still has a name recognition problem, so he is polling as mostly “some dude other than Trump I’ve vaguely heard of, but I don’t like Trump.” > > 2. Disliking one candidate isn’t sufficient to call an election. It is a choice between two candidates. And while Trump’s downsides are self-evident, Sanders is an undefined candidate. Trump will eat his lunch in defining him, and before its all over, Sanders will be a commie terrorist sympathizer who wants to take away your internal combustion engines and replace them with organic hemp composting communes. > > 3. We know that Americans are broadly dissatisfied with the direction of the country. Given the polarized views of Obama’s presidency, what are the odds that voters would say that Obama’s problem was that he wasn’t liberal enough? I say low. Compare that to Trump, who stands… Everywhere on the issues. One week he wants to ban Muslims, the next week he could say he wants to hand out abortions like candy. He could end up looking like the psychotic moderate compared to Sanders, but voters may key in on the word “moderate” as opposed to “psychotic.” > > 4. I think the odds of this race happening are zero. > > 5. If Sanders isn’t willing to attack a front runner at this point in the race, where he’s double digit points behind and the clock is ticking, he’s an incompetent politician. They are both populists, and one has a very high disapproval rating. And Sanders has already attacked Trump, so I see no reason he wouldn’t do so in the general election. Trump’s appeal is limited to some segment of white people, mostly men. Sanders gets everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/25 "2015-12-26T08:00:16Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The only way I can explain the level of support that Donald Trump has is that it part of the same phenomenon that we see when people get online anonymously and make threats and say horrible hateful things. It’s not anything new. Just the paranoid style in American politics. Just the latest manifestation of [Know Nothingism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing). In the recent [Fox News poll](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/18/fox-news-poll-views-on-trumps-proposed-ban-on-non-u-s-muslims.html) most Americans would support a temporary ban on allowing Muslims to enter the country. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/26 "2015-12-26T11:23:18Z")
And if that’s the case, why is Donald Trump the only person honestly addressing it? If Americans have a real concern, is the right approach to scold and turn up your nose, as many of the elite candidates are doing? Or even worse, cater to the fear and hate, but only a little bit, as Clinton did with her “prioritize widows and orphans” schtick? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/27 "2015-12-26T11:52:18Z")
No, the right approach is to explain that this particular xenophobic reflex is silly. Leaders are supposed to lead. Too many politicians follow. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/28 "2015-12-26T14:37:48Z")
Exactly. The President is sorta doing that, but he’s doing it too generically. “Not consistent with our values” is something he trots out too often to be effective. and not particularly effective at reassuring Americans. When a majority is for a ban on Muslim travel to the US, that’s not racism talking. Either Americans are right, or they are scared. And if you want to counter fear, you have to do it with more than just platitudes about American values. CNN is actually doing more than our leaders are doing, treating Muslims protecting Christians with their lives when their bus was attacked as front page news. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/29 "2015-12-26T16:17:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Look, I think Trump is a worse liar than Nixon and would be the biggest disaster in American politics in ages. But let’s acknowledge that when he says something stupid, he isn’t paying a very big price for it. And you think Sanders is going to be the one to make Trump start looking bad? Are you kidding? > > Trump clearly has the sort of appeal the WWE wrestling does: tune in to watch manufactured drama and the lowest common denominator of entertainment. Sanders has the sort of appeal that the New Yorker magazine does if you were to cut out all the cartoons. I’m not saying that WWE is better, I’m saying it is more popular. And elections are a popularity contest. Trump is not paying for it because he speaking to the Republican base which is full of morons, on the national stage he is not doing well at all. Most polls show he is pretty much the worst perfoming of the Republican candidates, so he IS paying for it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/30 "2016-01-15T14:22:53Z")
This head to head seems less far fetched as time passes. One thing for sure: if this was the contest you’d have pretty damn big turn out. And that turn out would have plenty of down ticket impacts. Traditional modeling would be out the window. Dang but it would be _interesting_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/31 "2016-01-15T14:27:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > This head to head seems less far fetched as time passes. But we’re heading into the real part of the campaigns. People are going to start actually casting votes. Primaries separate the real candidates from the ones who have a enthusiastic but small base. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/32 "2016-01-15T14:33:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And if that’s the case, why is Donald Trump the only person honestly addressing it? If Americans have a real concern, is the right approach to scold and turn up your nose, as many of the elite candidates are doing? Americans don’t have a real concern. Certainly not at the level that’s being thrown around. The average American is more likely to be killed by a cow than by a terrorist. Trump isn’t honestly addressing the issue. If he was being honest, he’d be saying terrorism is a relatively minor problem that people shouldn’t be worried about. Instead, he’s pumping up people’s fears in order to increase his own popularity as the one who will save people from an artificial threat. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/33 "2016-01-15T14:44:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But we’re heading into the real part of the campaigns. People are going to start actually casting votes. Primaries separate the real candidates from the ones who have a enthusiastic but small base. I agree. Every four years we’d hear how Ron Paul had such enthusiastic crowds and every time he’d crash and burn early. Sanders may get traction in the first two contests but I’m not seeing how he gets much in the larger states where it’s not just white liberals voting. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/34 "2016-01-15T14:45:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If he was being honest, he’d be saying terrorism is a relatively minor problem that people shouldn’t be worried about. Instead, he’s pumping up people’s fears Isn’t that the point of terrorism itself: to pump up people’s fears? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/35 "2016-01-15T16:51:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The average American is more likely to be killed by a cow than by a terrorist. So, cattle mutilators are patriots making a statement? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/36 "2016-01-15T17:09:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The average American is more likely to be killed by a cow than by a terrorist. 'Tis the humble cheeseburger which will be our demise. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/37 "2016-01-15T17:33:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > HRC runs as an independent … Never happen. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/38 "2016-01-15T17:33:50Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Isn’t that the point of terrorism itself: to pump up people’s fears? Of course. Trump is, thus, a big booster of Daesh’s and Al-Qaeda’s efforts even ignoring use of his videos at Daesh recruitment pages. For similar reasons, radical jihadists were delighted at the responses of the Bush-Cheney regime. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, cattle mutilators are patriots making a statement? A+ > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > 'Tis the humble cheeseburger which will be our demise. A++ I can’t decide which joke is funnier. Make it a poll question? ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/39 "2016-01-15T17:46:07Z")
I suspect that Bernie’s leftist and centrist support would be significantly augmented by an heterogenous “Anybody But Trump” vote. Furthermore, the Democrats would almost certainly benefit if there attempt to retake the Senate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272/40 "2016-01-15T18:05:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I agree. Every four years we’d hear how Ron Paul had such enthusiastic crowds and every time he’d crash and burn early. Sanders may get traction in the first two contests but I’m not seeing how he gets much in the larger states where it’s not just white liberals voting. I’ve seen Ron Paul, I know who Ron Paul is, and Bernie is no Ron Paul. I can’t see how you expect Trump to pick up traction where Bernie doesn’t. Bernie’s support is “white”? So Trump is going to get all the “colored” vote? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-v-trump/741272.md?page=3)