# Sanders/Warren 2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 26, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916 "2016-07-26T05:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/1 "2016-07-26T05:39:01Z")
If Bernie decides to change his tone or there is a mass-grass-roots campaign to write-in Sanders for President and Elizabeth Warren as VP, what would the outcome be? Pres. Trump? Any Sanders EVs? Election by the House? And let’s say he won EVs? How would the electors be determined? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/2 "2016-07-26T05:57:18Z")
The result would be President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/3 "2016-07-26T06:14:52Z")
Are you talking about the DNC suddenly nominating Bernie and supporting him through November? Or some fringe party made up of the small slice of America that fully believes writing in this ticket is going to make it happen, and that it would be a good thing? Because the results are widely divergent. I think the Democratic party could’ve nominated almost anyone besides Hillary and won this election with their eyes closed. But a fringe third party will never win, regardless of the grassroots support. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/4 "2016-07-26T06:20:15Z")
Unless Bernie actively supported such a candidacy and filed paperwork, he certainly couldn’t win, even if enough people supported such a ticket. According to [this map on Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates#Requirements_for_write-in_candidates), only 7 states count write-in votes for president without the candidate filing in advance. They have just 58 electoral votes between them (maybe 61, I can’t tell what color DC is). (It’d be interesting to see how those 7 states would handle it, since there would be no electors elected. Maybe there’s a provision for them to be appointed, or maybe they just haven’t thought it through because it’s never actually going to happen.) So, I’ll go with President Trump being the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/5 "2016-07-26T08:21:31Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And let’s say he won EVs? How would the electors be determined? Give it up, man. Hillary and Donald are the nominees. It’s final. It’s over. It’s done. It’s decided. There is nothing you can do about it. Zip. Bupkis. Nada. But as for this bit - the electors for each state are awarded according to each state’s rules about apportioning their electors. It doesn’t matter if the winner of the state comes from one of the two major parties. Whoever wins the state’s popular vote gets the state’s electors according to that state’s rules. I believe most states are winner takes all, but there are few oddballs, iirc. Now, most states have laws forcing an elector to vote for the state’s winner, but in actual practice, Electors are free to vote their concsience (while understanding that there may be penalties for their little act of free will). So theoretically, even if one candidate wins the popular vote, the Electors could all decide to give their Electoral Vote to Bernie Sanders. No. No that’s not going to happen. It’s over, man. It’s over. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/6 "2016-07-26T10:17:11Z")
Face it, Bernie lost. And that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/7 "2016-07-26T10:30:15Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > But as for this bit - the electors for each state are awarded according to each state’s rules about apportioning their electors. It doesn’t matter if the winner of the state comes from one of the two major parties. Whoever wins the state’s popular vote gets the state’s electors according to that state’s rules. When voting for President, one is actually voting for a slate of electors. Each major party (and most minor parties) select their candidates for elector, and then the election decides which slate gets to be part of the Electoral College. The state does not have a set pool of electors who are bound by the vote; they are chosen by the vote. (And they are generally party politicians who can be trusted to vote the way they’re supposed to. Generally.) How electors would be selected after the fact for a victory by a write-in candidate is a good question, but it’s unanswerable. I can’t imagine that we’ll ever need to know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/8 "2016-07-26T13:45:28Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The result would be President Trump. Bingo, IF the OPs scenario happened which has 0% chance of it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/9 "2016-07-26T22:02:38Z")
Sarah Silverman nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/10 "2016-07-27T00:54:43Z")
If you look at the primary campaign, Hillary won most of the primaries and Bernie won most of the caucases. A relatively small but committed group of voters has much more impact in a caucas than a primary. Plus, Bernie winning states included places like Wyoming, Idaho, North Dakota and Alaska, where any Democrat has a slim chance of winning the general election. Of course it’s possible that a Bernie movement in places like Minnesota, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon and Washington will be enough to tilt those states Republican, which would very likely be enough for President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/11 "2016-07-27T02:45:46Z")
Trust me, neither Oregon nor Washington will go Trump. No chance in hell. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/12 "2016-07-27T03:51:27Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Give it up, man. Hillary and Donald are the nominees. It’s final. It’s over. It’s done. It’s decided. There is nothing you can do about it. Zip. Bupkis. Nada. > [@panache45](#): > > Face it, Bernie lost. And that’s a good thing. Who are you talking to? Certainly not me because I have never been a Bernie supporter. I would think my other posts would make that obvious. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/13 "2016-07-27T04:12:36Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Of course it’s possible that a Bernie movement in places like Minnesota, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon and Washington will be enough to tilt those states Republican, which would very likely be enough for President Trump. While Indiana did quite surprisingly go Obama in 2008, I suspect that may have been because the knuckle-draggers around here hate women in power even more than they hate uppity blacks, and McCain was pretty damn old-- old enough to make people worry about a Palin presidency. Indiana is a red state. I think Sanders won the vote here thanks to democrat crossover voters like me, who were very concerned about some state level races, and knew Clinton didn’t need to win Indiana. Unfortunately, many of us misread the polls at the time, and thought Trump would be easier for Clinton to beat than Cruz. But a lot of those votes that Trump got in Indiana were by people who do not intend to vote for him in the general-- we’re going to vote for Clinton. However, Trump will pick up virtually all the Republican votes here, and probably quite a lot of the Libertarian ones as well, because they think he will deregulate businesses. What we didn’t expect was how much fundamentalist Christians would love Trump. We thought they’d stay home in droves. Actually, Pence as VP will hurt Trump in Indiana more than anything, but he will still win the state. It’s a red state. In 2008, a lot of the numerous college students who live here, but maintain “home” addresses at their parents’ in other states, and typically don’t vote, or in a presidential, vote absentee, registered in Indiana to help swing the state, and help Obama win it (and there was dancing in the streets, I tell you). I don’t foresee anything similar this November. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/14 "2016-07-27T04:21:15Z")
The result would be the same as its been since the beginning; President Clinton the Second. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/15 "2016-07-27T04:45:14Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > When voting for President, one is actually voting for a slate of electors. Each major party (and most minor parties) select their candidates for elector, and then the election decides which slate gets to be part of the Electoral College. The state does not have a set pool of electors who are bound by the vote; they are chosen by the vote. (And they are generally party politicians who can be trusted to vote the way they’re supposed to. Generally.) > > How electors would be selected after the fact for a victory by a write-in candidate is a good question, but it’s unanswerable. I can’t imagine that we’ll ever need to know the answer. I … am not sure about this. Let me quote (from Wiki). > **[United States Electoral College](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States))** > > In the United States, the Electoral College is the group of presidential electors that is formed every four years during the presidential election for the sole purpose of voting for the president and vice president. The process is described in Article II of the U.S. Constitution. The number of electoral votes a state has equals its number of Senators (2) plus its number of Representatives in the House of Representatives, the latter being dependent on the Census's reported population. Each s... > [@](#): > > Selection > > Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution requires each state legislature to determine how electors for the state are to be chosen, but it disqualifies any person holding a federal office, either elected or appointed, from being an elector.[26] Under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, any person who has sworn an oath to support the United States Constitution in order to hold either a state or federal office, and later rebelled against the United States, is disqualified from being an elector. However, the Congress may remove this disqualification by a two-thirds vote in each House. > > Candidates for elector are nominated by their state political parties in the months prior to Election Day. In some states, the electors are nominated in primaries, the same way that other candidates are nominated. In some states, such as Oklahoma, Virginia and North Carolina, electors are nominated in party conventions. In Pennsylvania, the campaign committee of each candidate names their candidates for elector (an attempt to discourage faithless electors).[27] > > Since the Civil War, all states have chosen presidential electors by popular vote. This process has been normalized to the point that the names of the electors appear on the ballot in only eight states: Tennessee, Arizona, Idaho, Louisiana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, and South Dakota.[4][28] > > The Tuesday following the first Monday in November has been fixed as the day for holding federal elections, called the Election Day.[29] Forty eight states and Washington, D.C., employ the “winner-takes-all method”, each awarding its electors as a single bloc. Maine and Nebraska use the “congressional district method”, selecting one elector within each congressional district by popular vote and selecting the remaining two electors by a statewide popular vote. This method has been used in Maine since 1972 and in Nebraska since 1996.[3] > > The current system of choosing electors is called the “short ballot”. In most states, voters choose a slate of electors, and only a few states list on the ballot the names of proposed electors. In some states, if a voter wants to write in a candidate for president, the voter is also required to write in the names of proposed electors.[27] As that quote states, the process for choosing Electors is described in Article 2 Clause 2 of the Constitution, which can be read here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article\_Two\_of\_the\_United\_States\_Constitution#Clause\_2:\_Method\_of\_choosing\_electors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Method_of_choosing_electors) > [@Article 2](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Clause 2: Method of choosing electors > > > > ``` > > Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector. > > > > ``` > > Under the U.S. Constitution the President and Vice President are chosen by Electors, under a constitutional grant of authority delegated to the legislatures of the several states and the District of Columbia. The Constitution reserves the choice of the precise manner for creating Electors to the will of the state legislatures. It does not define or delimit what process a state legislature may use to create its state college of Electors. In practice, the state legislatures have generally chosen to create Electors through an indirect popular vote, since the 1820s. > > In an indirect popular vote, it is the names of the electors who are on the ballot to be elected. Typically, their names are aligned under the name of the candidate for President and Vice President, that they, the Elector, have pledged they will support. It is fully understood by the voters and the Electors themselves that they are the representative “stand-ins” for the individuals to whom they have pledged to cast their electoral college ballots to be President and Vice President. In some states, in past years, this pledge was informal, and Electors could still legally cast their electoral ballot for whomever they chose. More recently, state legislatures have mandated in law that Electors shall cast their electoral college ballot for the Presidential Candidate to whom they are pledged. The constitutionality of such mandates is uncertain. > > Each state chooses as many Electors as it has Representatives and Senators representing it in Congress. Under the Twenty-third Amendment, the District of Columbia may choose no more electors than the state with the lowest number of electoral votes. No Senators, Representatives or federal officers may become Electors. So it’s definitely the States who appoint the Electors, not the Parties (although the Parties are free to suggest their own people for Electors.) If a third party Party won - if for example, a write-in candidate won - then the State Legislature would need to appoint an Elector panel to represent the will of the State’s voters. There might be a subsequent special election of voters, or the State Legislator may just appoint a panel. And again, whatever candidate wins is free to suggest people as Electors, but ultimately it’s the State that appoints them. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/16 "2016-07-27T04:52:40Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > So it’s definitely the States who appoint the Electors, not the Parties (although the Parties are free to suggest their own people for Electors.) The parties _have to_ suggest their own people. That’s how the system works now. In Ohio, for example, the Democratic Party will nominate 18 candidates for elector, as will the Republican Party, and also all the minor parties and whatever fruitcakes put themselves up as write-in candidates. Then, in November, the people of the state will elect one slate to go to Columbus and vote for president and vice president, although the ballot will just name the ticket they’ve pledged to vote for (with some fine print about it actually being the slate of electors you’re voting for). ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/17 "2016-07-27T17:56:49Z")
Why do people think that Warren would be a good candidate for VP? She is (currently) a one-issue pol with no executive experience, questionable judgement, and almost no national political exposure. On a straight resume comparison Sarah Palin was a better VP candidate. In ten years she might be a viable pick but not now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanders-warren-2016/760916/18 "2016-07-28T02:31:11Z")
In ten years she’ll be 77, so it’s a couple of terms as Senator for her and then she’s off to retirement. If Sanders/Warren was a Green Party ticket they’d compete pretty well given the weakness of the major party candidates. If Johnson/Weld and Stein/who? can pull down 15-20% combined, I imagine Sanders/Warren could get 30%.