# Sanders's Supporters Brownshirts Stop Trump Rally in Chicago **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 12, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710 "2016-03-12T02:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/281 "2016-03-13T19:08:23Z")
You are focusing on the definition of what a “restricted building” is. I am pointing out that the law prohibits “disturbing government business or official function” which a Trump rally is almost certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/282 "2016-03-13T19:13:35Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Rest assured that, if this were Trump supporters shutting down a Sanders rally, this board and the media chorus would be howling for the maximum penalty for everyone who disrupted or conspired to disrupt the event. And they would be right. I think you’re right. But what you seem to be ignoring here is that _no one disrupted the Trump rally in Chicago_. No one. Because it didn’t happen. Trump chose to cancel it before it started. Bernie’s supporters didn’t disrupt it, BLM didn’t disrupt it, Trump supporters didn’t disrupt it. It didn’t happen to be disrupted. And NOT because of UIC security or City of Chicago law enforcement concerns. They all said they had it handled and there was no reason to cancel it. So the only person who, at a stretch, “disrupted” Trump’s rally, was Trump. I absolutely think that disruptive people should be removed if the organizer asks for them to be removed. I also don’t think that not-disruptive people shouldn’t, but, y’know, it is his party, so if he wants to remove silent Muslim protesters or people with brown skin, so be it. At least it tells the world something about him. But they still have the right to \*go \*to the rally. Unless he prescreens and denies entrance on legal criteria - which he did not - then everyone who can get a ticket should be able to go. Whether they should be able to stay depends on their behavior, and his. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/283 "2016-03-13T19:17:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You are focusing on the definition of what a “restricted building” is. I am pointing out that the law prohibits “disturbing government business or official function” which a Trump rally is almost certainly not. Ok, I see what you are saying. “knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;” This section certainly applies to anyone who is asked to leave and refuses, and may apply to anyone there to disrupt the event (since the event is strictly for Trump supporters) although I don’t know how the court would go about proving that the defendant didn’t spontaneously decide to protest after arriving. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/284 "2016-03-13T19:19:32Z")
@WhyNot: No you’re wrong too. Causing a massive disturbance that causes a rally to be cancelled is “disrupting” it by any reasonable definition. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/285 "2016-03-13T19:21:53Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Ok, I see what you are saying. > > “knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;” > > This section certainly applies to anyone who is asked to leave and refuses, and may apply to anyone there to disrupt the event (since the event is strictly for Trump supporters) although I don’t know how the court would go about proving that the defendant didn’t spontaneously decide to protest after arriving. Well if they are asked to leave and don’t then they are trespassing anyway. No need to bring up this rather dubious new law. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/286 "2016-03-13T19:24:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > @WhyNot: > No you’re wrong too. Causing a massive disturbance that causes a rally to be cancelled is “disrupting” it by any reasonable definition. What massive disturbance happened before Trump cancelled? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/287 "2016-03-13T19:30:41Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I absolutely think that disruptive people should be removed if the organizer asks for them to be removed. Agreed. And I think this is about the limit of Slacker’s argument. > [@](#): > > I also don’t think that not-disruptive people shouldn’t, but, y’know, it is his party, so if he wants to remove silent Muslim protesters or people with brown skin, so be it. At least it tells the world something about him. Not if a political rally is a public accommodation. Yes if a political rally is a private club. I’m honestly not sure which it is, though I’m guessing “Private club”. More generally, a lot of this turns on issues of the law. I’m not persuaded that the participants of the thread have mastered that law: Hank Beecher deserves credit for pulling out the legal codes, but my take is they are anything but clear without reference to the case law. And fighting ignorance means saying so. And of course there’s the whiff of bullshit about these proceedings. Trump has been encouraging violence for months, often with false and made up statements about the activities of his opponents. Vox: ["The problem with violence at Trump rallies starts with Trump himself](http://www.vox.com/2016/3/11/11202540/trump-violent): Trump is not just condoning violence. He is encouraging it." Trump needs to knock it off and diffuse these situations. Instead he tends to amplify the most destructive and divisive voices in the crowd. And when violence is committed in his name, he applauds his supporters’ “Passion”. He could walk these things back, but he chooses not to. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/288 "2016-03-13T19:37:57Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > This section certainly applies to anyone who is asked to leave and refuses, and may apply to anyone there to disrupt the event (since the event is strictly for Trump supporters) Nobody was asked to take a loyalty oath as a condition of receiving a ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/289 "2016-03-13T19:39:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Really?](http://time.com/4256622/donald-trump-dayton-ohio-protesters-campaign-rally-storm-stage/) That’s an entirely different issue. Obviously an aggressive charge at someone is totally beyond the pale. BUT IT DID NOT SILENT HIS VOICE. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/290 "2016-03-13T19:40:16Z")
What would the point be of holding a rally only for supporters, anyhow? Aren’t rallies where you try to convince people who don’t already support you to support you? If everything there is already a supporter, it seems an awful waste of money. You won’t get any new votes out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/291 "2016-03-13T19:44:42Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > (since the event is strictly for Trump supporters) Oh, really? Was this explicitly a part of the ticketing process? Most political candidates actually want to have people come who don’t suport them, so they can persuade new voters. There’s absolutely no presumption that people who don’t already support a candidate are forbidden from the event. Ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/292 "2016-03-13T19:47:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > What would the point be of holding a rally only for supporters, anyhow? Aren’t rallies where you try to convince people who don’t already support you to support you? If everything there is already a supporter, it seems an awful waste of money. You won’t get any new votes out of it. Well, IIRC Romney fastidiously controlled access to his rallies because he wanted good television visuals. If you wore an Obama shirt, you would get ejected. If you wore a Romney shirt to an Obama rally, there would be no problem. Or am I mixing this up with a story about the Kerry/Bush contest? Anyway: television. ETA: But no, there’s no evidence that Trump does pre-screening to his rally. Hell, he _likes_ the protestors: ejecting them works well with his authoritarian shtick. ETA2: To tell you the truth, I’m not quite settled on what’s the proper behavior for opponents at a political rally. Except for silent protests of the sort conducted by the Muslim woman who was ejected by Trump security: those are highly ethical. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/293 "2016-03-13T19:48:59Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Trump has been encouraging violence for months. You mean encouraging violent responses to violence, right? I keep asking, but no one has come up with any evidence to support the meme that Trump has encouraged violence towards peaceful protesters. Nor has there been any evidence shown that he has done what is implied by “encouraging violence towards those that oppose him”, which would be telling people to seek out and attack others for merely opposing Trump, wherever they may be. In fact, it looks like all of his rallies open with announcements telling people that if a protester interrupts the rally, not to touch them but to surround them and chant “Trump! Trump!” ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/294 "2016-03-13T19:52:08Z")
nnm ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/295 "2016-03-13T19:52:32Z")
Actually, yes, Trump did screen. When I ordered tickets, I was asked to tell the computer if I was a Democrat or Republican, and I think maybe I was asked if I intended to vote for Trump, but I’m not sure if I’m remembering that correctly. I answered honestly. I was sent two tickets anyway. So he gathered the information he needed to have kept me out if he’d wanted only supporters there. He didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/296 "2016-03-13T19:52:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Oh, really? I have read this, but have not confirmed it. It may be BS. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/297 "2016-03-13T19:54:31Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > What would the point be of holding a rally only for supporters, anyhow? Aren’t rallies where you try to convince people who don’t already support you to support you? If everything there is already a supporter, it seems an awful waste of money. You won’t get any new votes out of it. Rallies are often just a get out the vote pep rally. Look, this does smell fishy to me. I would not be remotely surprised if this conflict was on purpose. The strategy of how the tickets were handed out and the timing of the cancellation can be easily viewed as promoting maximum ugliness. But it’s not unbelievable that they just fucked up by not being more careful with attendees and when a Trump advisor noticed there was a shitload of haters in the audience he called Trump and said “you better cancel, it’s going to be a riot”. Eta: I ask you this, if Trump had showed up and started talking are you positive there would have been LESS trouble? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/298 "2016-03-13T19:54:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s an entirely different issue. Obviously an aggressive charge at someone is totally beyond the pale. BUT IT DID NOT SILENT HIS VOICE. How did his Chicago rallies go yesterday? They seemed somewhat SILENT. The protesters were chanting “Who won? We won!” when it was announced that they were being canceled. Seems like silence was not only a side effect of their protests, but the main goal. Which was achieved. The rule should be don’t be a jerk. Don’t want someone to silence your favored candidate? Don’t work to silence theirs. Jesus, I hate having to defend Donald Trump and his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/299 "2016-03-13T20:00:28Z")
There were over 50,000 signatures on an open petition to UIC by March 6. There were public talks of protests all week. I got my tickets on March 6, and I think they were all gone by the 7th ot 8th. They had PLENTY of warning that the crowd was going to be anywhere between mixed and hostile. And yet they loaded up the auditorium before suddenly noticing? That means my options are Machiavellian or mind numbingly obtuse. I’m honestly not sure which to root for. And, again, the police told them they could handle it. UIC Security told them they could handle it. The people who actually do this for a living were not concerned about a riot. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/300 "2016-03-13T20:06:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This whole thing was orchestrated by the Trump campaign. Why do you suppose they stopped vetting entrants like they have done at every other event they have put on? They did everything they could to create conditions for confrontation. Trump lied about consulting Chicago police; that never happened, and CPD said they never advised Trump to cancel. They wanted a riot, and I’ll bet they were disappointed it wasn’t worse. Goebbels would be proud. This. Trump has been egging people on to commit violence. This was the next step. Setting up a confrontation, blaming it all on the anti-Trump protesters, and lying about the police shutting it down - these things are all part of the plan. It doesn’t matter if it’s transparent to the rest of us. Regardless of what we believe, his supporters are eating it up and becoming convinced that their political opponents are a direct threat to them and may even be terrorists. They’re seeing conspiracy everywhere and, as we’ve discussed many times on these boards, it’s a waste of time arguing with a conspiracy theorist. If you disagree with them, you’re part of the conspiracy. Goebbels indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710.md?page=16)