# Sanders's Supporters Brownshirts Stop Trump Rally in Chicago **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 12, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710 "2016-03-12T02:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/421 "2016-03-14T22:03:12Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > That is YOUR interpretation. I happen to think the movement that Bernie is a figure head for is far far more dangerous. > > They are the one with massive support in the media. > > They are the ones with massive support and presence on college campuses, who have teachers calling for “muscle” from students towards journalists, and who come to the defense of those who do. > > They are the ones who think they have the right to block streets and campuses and to occupy, and exclude others from, any building or park that they desire. > > They are the ones running speakers off of campuses due to their disapproval of the message. > > They are the ones demonizing biotechnology and energy technologies that are the best bet for materially improving the lives of humanity. > > They advocate shutting down the political speech of anyone they deem too influential. > > And of course they are the ones actually shutting down the political rallies of their opponents. > > The last seven decades have been filled with anti-Nazi messages in the media. A big fat fraction of all enemies in film and TV have been Nazis of one variety or another. The message is very clear that violence towards Nazis is justified, heroic and admirable. One of Tarantino’s latest films was a big gore fest glorifying brutal violence towards Nazis. > > In this context the Nazi accusations are hate speech, and quite clearly are likely to incite confrontation and violence. > > Then people want to come along and call Trump supporters Nazis at Trump rallies. And they are just supposed to sit there and meekly take it. It’s quite the cycle: media accuses Trump supporters of being Nazis, which incites people to go and disrupt Trump rallies by going to them and calling the people around them Nazis. Then, when the people hurl insults back, their objection to being called Nazis is used as evidence that they are Nazis! Hate speech doesn’t mean what you think it means. Sure, if the targets were German, then calling them Nazis could be hate speech. Calling them Nazis because you think their beliefs are similar to that of Nazis? Not hate speech. Hate speech is attacking someone for the race, religion, nationality, sex, sexuality, or similar classes. Verbally attacking someone for their speech is not hate speech. It doesn’t just mean insults that you think go too far. And, anyways, you’ve made it clear you do not support the idea of hate speech as a concept. Which is a good thing–a lot of what you get into with Islam can cross the lin there. (Disliking the religion is one thing–insulting the people for their religion is another.) As for your other claim, Sanders is not an authoritarian. Authoritatianism, disguised as populism, is what is similar to Hitler and Naziism. Supporting extending libel laws so that people will not say bad things about him–thus removing that freedom of speech you guys talk about so much–that’s more like Hitler. And, while you don’t have to sit there and take it when someone insults you, you don’t get to be violent in response, either. And you don’t get to whine about people offending you when your entire political platform is about deliberately offending the people you don’t like. To be honest, the protesters are really just taking a play from Trump’s playbook–saying shit to make their opposition angry, so then you can claim that you are being persecuted. Trump brought this stuff on himself. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/422 "2016-03-14T22:04:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, you know, they say there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Well it’s working fine for him so far. He is making the media look like the Washington Generals, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/423 "2016-03-14T22:20:05Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Usually, when the interruptions are relatively rare, nothing happens to the person, as long as they leave when asked without much resistance. > > But if enough people do this stuff then it has the potential to completely eliminate the ability for the target to hold events. That was obviously the goal of the organized action in Chicago on Friday. In those cases the punishments should be the same as they are for people who interrupt other kinds of events, which can be rather harsh. It may have been true of the Chicago crowd, (and has been true of a couple of subsequent events), but I would have to say that such disruption has been a reaction against the actions of Trump and his followers. This has been a growing situation and your first paragraph that I quoted is not correct. There have been increasing stories over the last couple of months of people peacefully attending a Trump rally being hustled out–forcibly hustled out–for the sin of silently wearing the wrong clothing. As those stories have increased in number, there has been an increase in the number of people who have felt lured to the rallies in order to be disruptive. The violence began with the Trump supporters. Several people who were not protesting have noted that they were hustled out by Secret Service agents. I am not sure whether this is true, but no effort was made by the Trump people to distinguish between hired crowd control people and people who were supposed to be supplying protection to the candidate, so the impression left with people reading/hearing the news is that Trump is using Presidential bodyguards to violently close his rallies to only those who favor his violence. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/424 "2016-03-14T22:23:17Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > … I happen to think the movement that Bernie is a figure head for is far far more dangerous. … Of course I could engage in a point by point of the inaccuracies and silliness of your list but none of that is necessary or worth any effort. The simple fact is that the movement Bernie is a figurehead for is of no danger to anyone. The Sanders fans here will of course disagree with me but it is, at worst, a paper tiger. The “other” demonized by them - the 1% and Wall Street - is under no serious threat from them. Be that as it may be. Acknowledged that you see out of bounds attempts by students to enforce excessive campus “correctness” mostly via protest as a great danger to society as a whole. Step back from the immediate politics for a second. Reread my recipe for an authoritarian thugacracy again. In the abstract, not applying it to anyone concretely, what about it do you disagree with, if anything? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/425 "2016-03-14T22:30:24Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The only time he has encouraged violence, that I have seen, has been against people who were themselves being violent. Remember, his rallies begin with an announcement telling attendees not to touch protesters. > > Until yesterday the only violence he was apologetic towards was also against people being violent. > > Now, he seems to be, when asked, giving some implicit support to the elderly guy who clocked the kid flipping of the crowd while being led out of the ralley, saying that he is “looking into” paying his legal expenses. I guess he thinks that a lot of people will be sympathetic to the old coot. Is this some kind of defense? If so, it’s a pathetic defense. He did call for violence, even if at the same time there were contrary announcements (and which message will Trump supporters pay more attention to – PA announcements, or the words of Trump?); he did imply he’d pay for the legal fees of violent people. Why bother defending this kind of stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/426 "2016-03-14T23:07:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is this some kind of defense? If so, it’s a pathetic defense. He did call for violence, even if at the same time there were contrary announcements (and which message will Trump supporters pay more attention to – PA announcements, or the words of Trump?); he did imply he’d pay for the legal fees of violent people. > Why bother defending this kind of stuff? Because the ‘Trump is the sympathetic victim of America-hating Leftists’ storyline is, quite possibly, _the best he’s ever had_. It has the potential to let him move beyond the hardcore 15% of Americans he’s had for months–the disaffected, xenophobic, authoritarian-adoring, often white-supremacist base–and pick up large numbers of new voters, among people who are genuinely shocked by the concept of denying a candidate his right to speak. _‘I can’t help being on Trump’s side because of all this’_ is the sweet music he is hoping to hear. > [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, OK, then, for _this_, you will rely on their testimony! But naturally, if they say they were vocal but peaceful, they’re a bunch of lying shits. **Surely it must have occurred to you that maybe Trump grabbed a perfect opportunity to play the victim?** Or is his record for complete candor and open honesty too good to even consider that? Yes! It’s not as if he’s the kind of person who would _hire people_ to do things at his rallies: > [@](#): > > … Mr. Trump – the real estate mogul who launched his bid to occupy the White House in 2016 – paid actors $50 each to beef up attendance at his campaign announcement Tuesday, according to The Hollywood Reporter. According to reports, Trump’s team sent an e-mail to a casting agency asking for performers “to wear T-shirts and carry signs and help cheer him in support of his announcement.” For the record, a Trump campaign manager has denied these reports, telling The Hollywood Reporter, “Mr. Trump draws record crowds at almost every venue at which he is a featured speaker. The crowds are large, often record-setting and enthusiastic, often with standing ovations." > > But The Hollywood Reporter has obtained the e-mail and another source has identified paid background actors in Instagram photos from Trump’s announcement. … The unraveling of the Great Trumpian Hiring Campaign began when Media Matters for America VP and anti-Trump activist Angelo Carusone noticed something strange at Trump’s pumped up event. “Something just felt off about it to me. But, I couldn’t quite place it. Was it the staging? The crowd?” he wrote on the site Medium. "My initial thought was, ‘I bet Trump is paying some of those people to be there.’ Bingo. > > Carusone noticed a photo on Instagram of a Trump supporter who also happened to be a paid actor he had seen in other social media posts, Domenico Del Giacco. The girl next to Del Giacco? Also a paid actress, Courtney Kloz. The Hollywood Reporter investigated and obtained an e-mail sent by the New York-based Extra Mile Casting agency, calling on performers to join the campaign launch. > “We are looking to cast people for the event to wear T-shirts and carry signs and help cheer him in support of his announcement,” the June 12 e-mail said. “We understand this is not a traditional ‘background job,’ but we believe acting comes in all forms and that is inclusive of this school of thought." … ['You're Hired!': Donald Trump paid actors to attend presidential launch, says Hollywood Reporter - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2015/0618/You-re-Hired!-Donald-Trump-paid-actors-to-attend-presidential-launch-says-Hollywood-Reporter) He’s the honest kind of guy who, apparently, doesn’t have any objection to manipulating events at his rallies. Think of the possibilities! ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/427 "2016-03-15T00:51:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A bit off on that, apologies. My source is the eminent historian **Hank Beecher** … > > Which I somewhat misinterpreted. Be that as it may, you will have to ask **Hank Beecher** about his source of information. The reason I was asking your source is because you mentioned getting him to the podium, which the Chicago police statement does not, so I thought maybe you had different info. Anyway, you seem to somehow have become even _more_ confused. Trump never claimed to have shut down the rally due to concerns for his own safety. The statement from the Chicago police is about their assurances that they had the resources to get him in and out of the venue. His concerns were not about getting to and from the rally, but on the danger of holding the rally with thousands of protesters present who were intent on disrupting it. That’s his claim, and it is fully plausible in all respects. We can guess on what undisclosed motives he might have had, in addition to (or instead of) the safety concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/428 "2016-03-15T00:55:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Trump attacks Sanders because he can’t really be called a Nazi unless he blames all his problems on a Jew. I’m sure it will put the anti-Semitic Muslims in quite the bind, having to choose between Trump and The Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/429 "2016-03-15T01:27:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Beecher** , > > Just for clarity’s sake … the point of my post was to point out the inanity of yours, which seems to be predicated upon the premise that similarities to the rise of Nazism are invalid because Jews are not the targeted other. Jews being the other of the moment or not is not the point of the comparisons to the rise of Nazism and the cult of Hitler. The point is that you have to have some kind of minimum standard of what it takes to make a Nazi. Trump doesn’t make the cut by a long shot. A belief in racial supremacy is a core component of Nazism. It’s like trying to call a canoe a car because it goes, even though it doesn’t have wheels or a motor. > [@](#): > > The HuffPo link you offer is pathetic. I speak as one whose extended family included many who died in HaShoah and whose father was among the first American soldiers at the gates of Dachau. How fucking _dare_ that writer use _my_ dead relatives as a shield for the garbage that is Trump? > > I’ve bemoaned the overuse of Hitler and Holocaust comparisons fairly often myself and very much appreciate that its excessive use devalues what HaShoah was. Calling the Trumpers Nazis in the first place is what is insulting and inflammatory. Objecting to the comparison is not. > [@](#): > > This one is not Godwinizing. Yes it absolutely is. There is a bit of American narcissism going on here. Yes, Trump is talented and charismatic. But he is just a regular old demagogue selling a brand of nationalism that is pretty mild by historical standards. And the fact is, his nationalism, as any nationalism that has any hope of ever succeeding here will be, is multi-racial and explicitly inclusive. This makes the comparison to Nazism not just wrong and silly, but divisive and counterproductive. > [@](#): > > This is merely recognition of the essential recipe for the rise of the authoritarian thugocracy, that Hitler, and many other thugs have used throughout history, some to greater tragedies and horrors than others. No, I do not believe that Trump has a Final Solution in mind for any group, more along the lines of looking at the profits Putin has made and wanting to be like Vlad. He is a weak assed thug and given that America is not 1920 to 1930s Germany or even post Soviet collapse Russia he will not succeed. I can certainly acknowledge the similarities that do exist, but I can’t take seriously the suggestion that Trump’s insurgent campaign is more indicative of a prelude to historical disaster than the Sanders campaign, and the crowds of his supporters organizing actions to shut down their opponents and chase professors out of town for saying bad words or sending emails they disagree with. When you factor in how much power they have on college campuses, in the media, and among some of the political establishment, it’s clear that they are the Goliath to Trump’s David. The public is seeing this, and we know how that will likely turn out… > [@](#): > > But this IS where the never-again should be coming into action. The ingredients are in the pot and the heat is turned up to bring it to a boil. We do not wait for the scum to come to the top before recognize what is in progress. Calling it what is early is step one in fighting this disease. Then call it what it is, which is _not_ Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/430 "2016-03-15T01:30:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Yeah.](http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017338713)[Right.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-i-dont-condone-violence/)[Sure.](http://mashable.com/2016/03/12/trump-rally-incite-violence/#MJXTcKwm_iqg) In which example did he condone violence against peaceful protesters (keeping in mind, of course, that even the old peacenik Sanders uses force to eject people who disrupt his rallies)? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/431 "2016-03-15T01:51:20Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > And, all of this is moot. The mere attempt to silence someone’s speech, nomatter how doomed to fail it is, is in itself pathetic. [One of the most pathetic scenes in movie history](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KTsg9i6lvqU). ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/432 "2016-03-15T02:03:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Hate speech doesn’t mean what you think it means. Sure, if the targets were German, then calling them Nazis could be hate speech. Calling them Nazis because you think their beliefs are similar to that of Nazis? Not hate speech. I love how the racial component suddenly disappears when it’s a necessary condition of membership in a class afforded special protections against vilification. What happened to Trumpism being all about the angry white people? > [@](#): > > Hate speech is attacking someone for the race, religion, nationality, sex, sexuality, or similar classes. Verbally attacking someone for their speech is not hate speech. It doesn’t just mean insults that you think go too far. So once Trumpism becomes a religion then calling Trumpists Nazis will be hate speech? The distinctions involved in defining hate speech, and thus the laws against hate speech, are idiotic. If calling people Nazis is not hate speech, after 2/3 of a century of making it clear that violence towards Nazis is not only justified but heroic, then another term needs to be adopted for whatever it is, and there needs to be just as much objection to it as there is to hate speech (but no laws against either, of course). > [@](#): > > And, anyways, you’ve made it clear you do not support the idea of hate speech as a concept. Which is a good thing–a lot of what you get into with Islam can cross the lin there. (Disliking the religion is one thing–insulting the people for their religion is another.) That’s a often a one way distinction, in practice. If someone believes their religion to be a perfectly true, divine, fundamental, and essential part of themselves and their heritage, it is nearly impossible for them not to understand criticism of it to be a personal insult. > [@](#): > > As for your other claim, Sanders is not an authoritarian. I disagree wholeheartedly. He is currently quite open about his eagerness to shut up the voices of those who’s influence he considers dangerous. He has advocated nationalizing entire industries, in the past. He has spoken fondly of authoritarian governments, in the past. > [@](#): > > Authoritatianism, disguised as populism, is what is similar to Hitler and Naziism. Supporting extending libel laws so that people will not say bad things about him–thus removing that freedom of speech you guys talk about so much–that’s more like Hitler. Does Trump advocate anything stricter than what Britain has? If not, is Britain Literally Hitler? Personally I find both the laws in Britain and Trump’s suggestion to be abhorrent. He does get lied about in the media constantly, though. > [@](#): > > And, while you don’t have to sit there and take it when someone insults you, you don’t get to be violent in response, either. Not only were the Trump supporters not violent towards the woman who implicitly called them Nazis, she described them as “lovely”, and said that while they did throw hateful insults, she never felt like she was in any kind of danger, because she was sure that the people there would have stopped anyone who tried to hurt her. > [@](#): > > And you don’t get to whine about people offending you when your entire political platform is about deliberately offending the people you don’t like. The objection is not that the anti-Trumpists message is offensive, but that they are insisting on disrupting Trump’s rallies in order to communicate it. > [@](#): > > To be honest, the protesters are really just taking a play from Trump’s playbook–saying shit to make their opposition angry, so then you can claim that you are being persecuted. Trump brought this stuff on himself. The difference is that Trump supporters do not care whether Bernshirts hold rallies, but the Bernshirts consider themselves justified in shutting down Trump’s, because Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/433 "2016-03-15T02:15:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [One of the most pathetic scenes in movie history](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KTsg9i6lvqU). Agreed. If one can’t manage to counter an argument against such an obviously wrong opponent, one is pretty pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/434 "2016-03-15T02:17:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It may have been true of the Chicago crowd, (and has been true of a couple of subsequent events), but I would have to say that such disruption has been a reaction against the actions of Trump and his followers. This has been a growing situation and your first paragraph that I quoted is not correct. There have been increasing stories over the last couple of months of people peacefully attending a Trump rally being hustled out–forcibly hustled out–for the sin of silently wearing the wrong clothing. “Peaceful” doesn’t have anything to do with it. If I went to a play and decided to accompany the stage-whispered dialogue with some loud impromptu singing of my own, I would be\* forcibly hustled out\*, because those putting on the event get to decide on the level of audience participation that they will tolerate. And people can dress and act in ways that communicate messages too. Those putting on the event have every right to decide whether to allow that audience participation, as well. They certainly do not have to allow the people who came there in support to be insulted and implicitly called Nazis by those who come to protest and disrupt. > [@](#): > > As those stories have increased in number, there has been an increase in the number of people who have felt lured to the rallies in order to be disruptive. The violence began with the Trump supporters. Cite? > [@](#): > > Several people who were not protesting have noted that they were hustled out by Secret Service agents. I am not sure whether this is true, but no effort was made by the Trump people to distinguish between hired crowd control people and people who were supposed to be supplying protection to the candidate I am not sure why this distinction is important. > [@](#): > > , so the impression left with people reading/hearing the news is that Trump is using Presidential bodyguards to violently close his rallies to only those who favor his violence. Favor what violence? Your statement seems ridiculously hyperbolic. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/435 "2016-03-15T02:19:59Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > (keeping in mind, of course, that even the old peacenik Sanders uses force to eject people who disrupt his rallies)? Cite, please. I can recall only two reported instances _of_ protest at Sanders’ events, and as I understand it, at no point was force ever applied to anyone. In one case (last August, in Seattle) activists identified with Black Lives Matter were not only not ejected, they were [allowed to address the crowd](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/250667-protesters-interrupt-bernie-sanders-rally) from the stage, despite some hostility and even calls for “arrest” from a few in attendance. (Contrast this with [a later Clinton event](http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/clinton-holds-campaign-speech-in-atlanta-to-discuss-race-throws-out-black-lives-matter-activists-video/).) In the other (October, in Boston) pro-Palestinian demonstrators were told to put their signs away or leave; here security staff, acting on a cue from a Sanders campaign aide, reportedly threatened arrest, and the demonstrators left. [The Sanders campaign later said this treatment had been a mistake](https://theintercept.com/2015/10/05/dissent-on-israel-not-permitted-at-bernie-sanders-event/), “a poor decision by a low-level staffer and doesn’t reflect campaign policy.” ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/436 "2016-03-15T02:51:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of course I could engage in a point by point of the inaccuracies and silliness of your list but none of that is necessary or worth any effort. > > The simple fact is that the movement Bernie is a figurehead for is of no danger to anyone. The Sanders fans here will of course disagree with me but it is, at worst, a paper tiger. The “other” demonized by them - the 1% and Wall Street - is under no serious threat from them. I’m not so sure, though I get your point and agree with you that his targets are more powerful, while Trump’s are more vulnerable. And that is significant, and why I would never vote for Trump but will for Clinton even though she is pragmatically singing the eat-the-rich song a bit, herself. But regardless, that’s not how it works anyway. The demonization of corporations and the wealthy sets up a culture of resentment and entitlement in which just about anyone can be seen as “the man”, in the right circumstances. Once people are convinced that their having less than others is the result of unfairness, anyone with more than them can be imagined to be a beneficiary of this unfair system and thus a valid target. I have been on the receiving end of this myself before, and I am no where near the top 1%. > [@](#): > > Be that as it may be. Acknowledged that you see out of bounds attempts by students to enforce excessive campus “correctness” mostly via protest as a great danger to society as a whole. They are actually running professors off campus for using the wrong word, or sending out an email or tweet that they disagree with. Our entire society and culture is enabled by and based on the principle of an open and free exchange of ideas, and our universities are supposed to be the epicenter of the process. And now of course they are shutting down political rallies of their opponents. So, yes. For now, at least. > [@](#): > > Step back from the immediate politics for a second. Reread my recipe for an authoritarian thugacracy again. Ok. I assume you mean this: > [@](#): > > The issue is the recipe: take a critical mass of a majority culture experiencing a major loss of status and anxiety regarding their futures and add an authoritarian demagogue exploiting it by pointing at broad brush “others” identifiable by religion or ethnicity or cultural heritage to blame. Exploit existing stereotypes and prejudices. Encourage some violence along the way. Throw in some anti-intellectualism for extra spice. Bring to boil. > [@](#): > > In the abstract, not applying it to anyone concretely, what about it do you disagree with, if anything? Nothing at all. Bernie scores higher on some of the above criteria, and Trump higher on the others. It’s just that the public voice that the mob Bernie is currently personifying is enormous in comparison to the current public voice of the Trumpers and Trumpettes. It’s a huge lopsided ratio, a ratio similar to the ratio between the mob of protesters in Chicago, and the one lone Trump supporter who got kicked out of the Bernie rally. That’s all about to change, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/437 "2016-03-15T03:06:20Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Cite, please. > > I can recall only two reported instances _of_ protest at Sanders’ events, and as I understand it, at no point was force ever applied to anyone. > > In one case (last August, in Seattle) activists identified with Black Lives Matter were not only not ejected, they were [allowed to address the crowd](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/250667-protesters-interrupt-bernie-sanders-rally) from the stage, despite some hostility and even calls for “arrest” from a few in attendance. (Contrast this with [a later Clinton event](http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/clinton-holds-campaign-speech-in-atlanta-to-discuss-race-throws-out-black-lives-matter-activists-video/).) > > In the other (October, in Boston) pro-Palestinian demonstrators were told to put their signs away or leave; here security staff, acting on a cue from a Sanders campaign aide, reportedly threatened arrest, and the demonstrators left. [The Sanders campaign later said this treatment had been a mistake](https://theintercept.com/2015/10/05/dissent-on-israel-not-permitted-at-bernie-sanders-event/), “a poor decision by a low-level staffer and doesn’t reflect campaign policy.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/qOTHjkIlR7U/hqdefault.jpg "Donald Trump Supporter Heckles Bernie Sanders") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTHjkIlR7U&t=114) What’s funny is how Trump is the one that gets attacked by the media with baseless insinuations that he is singling people out for ejection from his rallies due to their race, while Bernie kicks out the white Trumpist but allows the BLM girls to take over, and apologizes for muting the pro-Palestinian protesters. Some good, trendy ethnic flavor doing it’s job! So hot right now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/438 "2016-03-15T03:16:43Z")
Am I missing something here? Those thousands of protesters people keep talking about were OUTSIDE THE BUILDING. There were nowhere near that many in the event itself. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/439 "2016-03-15T03:25:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Am I missing something here? Those thousands of protesters people keep talking about were OUTSIDE THE BUILDING. There were nowhere near that many in the event itself. [Chicago authorities estimated that as many as 4,000 of the 8,000-plus who turned up at the University of Illinois-Chicago Pavilion, and later spilled into the streets of the city, were intent on making sure the rally either never happened or went on accompanied by a loud voice of dissent.](http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/03/11/trump-blames-canceled-rally-on-protesters.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/440 "2016-03-15T03:30:25Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > [Chicago authorities estimated that as many as 4,000 of the 8,000-plus who turned up at the University of Illinois-Chicago Pavilion, and later spilled into the streets of the city, were intent on making sure the rally either never happened or went on accompanied by a loud voice of dissent.](http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/03/11/trump-blames-canceled-rally-on-protesters.htm) At but not _in._ I saw the videos. There weren’t thousands of protesters inside the building. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710.md?page=23)