# Sanders's Supporters Brownshirts Stop Trump Rally in Chicago **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 12, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710 "2016-03-12T02:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/101 "2016-03-12T17:26:29Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > This is false. He was asked about an unspecified list of groups and refused to condemn them _all_ without knowing who they were. He had disavowed Duke many times before, including on Twitter the night before that interview. The whole firestorm over Trump’s supposed refusal to repudiate the endorsement played right into Duke’s effort to insert his irrelevant self into an invented controversy, and the media’s participaion shows that they have no problem whatsoever giving Duke exposure in order to drive ratings and weave a convenient and false narrative. > > Or, to quote this Trump supporter: [“David Duke and people like that, they come out from under the rocks all the time around this time of year. It’s got nothing to do with Donald Trump, I think we need to stop with all the racist stuff and all the race-baiting … Nobody paying David Duke no mind”](https://youtu.be/8NVVwZVd6ZM) He was asked specifically about Duke and the kkk, and feigned ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/102 "2016-03-12T17:27:41Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > As usual, the liberal media aren’t reporting [the real story](https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4a2bu9/what_really_happened_at_the_chicago_rally_my/d0wwgyt): What’s even more astonishing is the liberal media’s complete success in censoring every single cell phone video of these events, as well as every other shred of evidence of their occurrence other than a reddit comment. Wake up sheeple! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/103 "2016-03-12T17:29:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > …He’s also been very slow to disavow racist supporters like David Duke and the kkk, and feigned ignorance of Duke even though he had specifically criticized Duke years before. (post shortened) Trump had disavowed the KKK/Duke before the Jake “wanna-be-king-maker” Tapper internet interview with Trump and Trump disavowed the KKK/Duke after the Jake “wanna-be-king-maker” Tapper internet interview with Trump. Trump said there were problems with the internet hookup. CNN and Tapper doubt there could have been a transmission problem. If there had been an actual problem, CNN and Tapper would have simply looked stupid for trying to spin the interview. That didn’t stop CNN and Tapper for repeatedly claiming that Trump didn’t, or was too slow, to disavow the KKK/Duke. The facts are sometimes hard to find on CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/104 "2016-03-12T17:29:37Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > They become the LSM when they claim that Trump’s raised hand gesture, which was similar to Obama’s raised hand swearing-in gesture, is some sort of Nazi salute. I wasn’t aware that Obama ever demanded than an audience personally swear loyalty to him. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/105 "2016-03-12T17:34:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He was asked specifically about Duke and the kkk, and feigned ignorance. I watched it, his refusal was a refusal to condem an unspecified list of groups. He didn’t “feign ignorance”, he refused to submit to the desperate attempt to associate him with a reviled fugure who he has never supported. He didn’t say he had never heard of Duke, he said he had not met him, and he said that he didn’t know anything about white supremacy, as a counter to the stupid implication that a guy with a Jewish daughter is some kind of closet David Duke supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/106 "2016-03-12T17:37:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What’s even more astonishing is the liberal media’s complete success in censoring every single cell phone video of these events, as well as every other shred of evidence of their occurrence other than a reddit comment. Wake up sheeple! Actually there is footage of much of that, including the rioters chanting “Bernie Bernie”, fighting with police, and blocking ambulances. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/107 "2016-03-12T17:38:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Right, but even with that, I can’t parse that underlined bit. Oh, it was a reference to Ted Cruz and Rubio telling reporters that Trump had a lot to blame for what took place. That is very important for the media that has to show fairness.[And that does affect the casual observers that should also wonder why protesters were bloodied and the Trump supporters are just tossing smoke screens](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-st-louis_us_56e32844e4b0b25c9181ec8d). While it is clear that Trump has a good chunk of support, the reality is that the support is still not total among Republicans, and even less once the contest eventually goes to the main event. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/108 "2016-03-12T17:39:50Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > I watched it, his refusal was a refusal to condem an unspecified list of groups. > > […That’s the line you’re going with, huh?](http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/29/transcript-shows-donald-trumps-bad-earpiece-excuse-kkk-support-lie.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > TAPPER: I want to ask you about the Anti-Defamation League, which this week called on you to publicly condemn unequivocally the racism of **former KKK grand wizard David Duke** , who recently said that voting against you at this point would be treason to your heritage. Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don’t want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election? > > TRUMP: Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about **David Duke**. OK? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don’t know. I don’t know, did he endorse me or what’s going on, because, you know, **I know nothing about David Duke**. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you’re asking me a question that I’m supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about. > > > > … > > > > TRUMP: Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don’t know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I would have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them. And, certainly, I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong. > > > > TAPPER: **The Ku Klux Klan**? > > > > TRUMP: But you may have groups in there that are totally fine, and it would be very unfair. So, give me a list of the groups, and I will let you know. > > > > TAPPER: OK. I mean, **I’m just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here** , but… > > > > TRUMP: I don’t know any — honestly,\*\* I don’t know David Duke\*\*. I don’t believe I have ever met him. I’m pretty sure I didn’t meet him. And I just don’t know anything about him. > > Yep. That’s pretty darned non-specific. > > > [@](#): > > > > He didn’t say he had never heard of Duke > > That line again is… > > [QUOTE=Donald Trump] > I know nothing about David Duke. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Actually there is footage of much of that, including the rioters chanting “Bernie Bernie”, fighting with police, and blocking ambulances. I’m sure you’ll be providing this footage any second now. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/109 "2016-03-12T17:47:31Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > I watched it, his refusal was a refusal to condem an unspecified list of groups. He didn’t “feign ignorance”, he refused to submit to the desperate attempt to associate him with a reviled fugure who he has never supported. He didn’t say he had never heard of Duke, he said he had not met him, and he said that he didn’t know anything about white supremacy, as a counter to the stupid implication that a guy with a Jewish daughter is some kind of closet David Duke supporter. What Trump did was playing dumb, and it is grasping at straws to propose that he was not aware of what groups the reporter specifically mentioned then. [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/28/3754583/trump-david-duke/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/28/3754583/trump-david-duke/) > [@](#): > > “Well, just so you understand, I don’t anything about David Duke, OK? I don’t even know anything about what you’re talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. Did he endorse me, or what’s going on? I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists,” Trump told Tapper. > > Trump does know who David Duke is, however. In 2000, when he said he would not seek the Reform Party nomination, Trump said that the party was too splintered to successfully back a presidential candidate. > > “As you know, the Reform Party has got some pretty big problems,” Trump said on World News Now in 2000. “Not the least of which is Pat Buchanan, David Duke, Fulani, and it’s a problem.” > > Trump also wrote in the New York Times, “Although I am totally comfortable with the people in the New York Independence Party, I leave the Reform Party to David Duke, Pat Buchanan and Lenora Fulani. That is not company I wish to keep.” The point was to indeed have Trump disavow David Duke in no uncertain terms, not to play the dumb card. Trump had to do it any how later. Thiking that that is to “submit to the desperate attempt to associate him with a reviled figure” was a very dumb talking point. And I’m still waiting for Trump to disown Joe Arpaio. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/110 "2016-03-12T17:48:31Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Actually there is footage of much of that, including the rioters chanting “Bernie Bernie”, fighting with police, and blocking ambulances. Chanting “Bernie Bernie” has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Fighting with police? BLocking ambulances? Let’s see it. And while you’re at it, let’s see some footage of this other stuff. Actually, any evidence at all of this other stuff: > [@](#): > > a group of black protestors were targeting and assaulting white Trump supporters. [edit: I like the racialized aspect of this. What, they were going around, seeing all the black Trump supporters and being like, you’re cool, and it was only when they found the white ones that they attacked?] > [@](#): > > They managed to climb the walls of the parking garage and up on the third floor were hitting cars with bats and hammers smashing in windows. > > They were blocking highways and side streets trying to prevent people from leaving so they could attack them. [edit: note that it’s not just blocking streets, it’s blocking them in order to trap people in order to attack them. Cite that, please] > [@](#): > > Two hispanic males shot at a firetruck. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Oh, it was a reference to Ted Cruz and Rubio telling reporters that Trump had a lot to blame for what took place. Ah, gotcha. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/111 "2016-03-12T17:48:55Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > I watched it, his refusal was a refusal to condem an unspecified list of groups. He didn’t “feign ignorance”, he refused to submit to the desperate attempt to associate him with a reviled fugure who he has never supported. He didn’t say he had never heard of Duke, he said he had not met him, and he said that he didn’t know anything about white supremacy, as a counter to the stupid implication that a guy with a Jewish daughter is some kind of closet David Duke supporter. He was specifically asked about Duke and the kkk. Add that to retweeting bogus racist fake stats from white supremacists, and calling Mexicans rapists, and violence against minorities in his rallies, and then we see why his campaign has been responded to very negatively by many black Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/112 "2016-03-12T17:54:33Z")
[quote=“Smapti, post:108, topic:748710”] > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > I watched it, his refusal was a refusal to condem an unspecified list of groups. > > […That’s the line you’re going with, huh?](http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/29/transcript-shows-donald-trumps-bad-earpiece-excuse-kkk-support-lie.html) > > Yep. That’s pretty darned non-specific. That’s a perfectly reasonable response to a desperate attempt to associate him with a widely hated figure that he has never given any support to whatsoever. > [@](#): > > That line again is… It’s not a “line”, it’s an outright rejection of the implied premise associating Trump and Duke, just because Duke gave him an endorsement like he often does in order to get publicity. He even endorsed Obama, claiming that he admired his “racial consciousness” or something. > [@](#): > > I’m sure you’ll be providing this footage any second now. > > I’ll wait. Should I even bother to take the time? If I do so are you going to demand that Sanders disavow those of his supporters who used force and violence to shut down their opponent’s political rally? Or will you minimize it and imply that it’s acceptable or expected because Trump=Literally Hitler J. KKK? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/113 "2016-03-12T17:56:23Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > That’s a perfectly reasonable response to a desperate attempt to associate him with a widely hated figure that he has never given any support to whatsoever. He was given a specific opportunity to _deny_ any association with that figure. _He explicitly didn’t take it._ > [@](#): > > Should I even bother to take the time? If I do so are you going to demand that Sanders disavow those of his supporters who used force and violence to shut down their opponent’s political rally? Or will you minimize it and imply that it’s acceptable or expected because Trump=Literally Hitler J. KKK? In other words, you don’t have links to any such videos, because that video doesn’t exist, because none of those things happened. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/114 "2016-03-12T18:06:58Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > That’s a perfectly reasonable response to a desperate attempt to associate him with a widely hated figure that he has never given any support to whatsoever. Nonsense, what Trump did was not reasonable in light of Trump himself disavowing David Duke later anyhow, clearly showing that what he did early was big blunder. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/115 "2016-03-12T18:11:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The point was to indeed have Trump disavow David Duke in no uncertain terms, not to play the dumb card. Trump had to do it any how later. Thiking that that is to “submit to the desperate attempt to associate him with a reviled figure” was a very dumb talking point. He had already disavowed him the night before. The constant mentioning of Trump with KKK/Nazis is an attempt to associate him with these ideologies and persons that he has never supported, and he responded appropriately by refusing to go meekly along with the implication that he was associated with them. If Trump wad really trying to pander to white supremacists he certainly wouldn’t spend so much time on his stage with black people, or call himself a big supporter of Israel. And it takes some serious ignorance to be unaware of this. It’s an antiqued and desperate line of attack by those ill equipped and too lazy to craft an appropriate response to a popular nationalist and natavist candidate who isn’t using racialist language, and thus isn’t a good target for the kinds of tropes his opponents are used to lobbing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/116 "2016-03-12T18:14:25Z")
**Hank** , look at post 108. You were unequivocally wrong. If you refuse to admit it when you’re so clearly and unambiguously incorrect, how seriously do you expect anyone–including yourself–to take any other claim you make? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/117 "2016-03-12T18:14:56Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > It’s not a “line”, it’s an outright rejection of the implied premise associating Trump and Duke, just because Duke gave him an endorsement like he often does in order to get publicity. He even endorsed Obama, claiming that he admired his “racial consciousness” or something. That’s bullshit. Duke said maybe I should endorse Obama because he’s so race conscious then goes on to say how horrible Obama was. To Trump he gave a partial endorsement and exhorted his listeners to go out and volunteer on Trump’s campaign. Someone lied to you if you they told you there was an equivalence between those two statements. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/118 "2016-03-12T18:15:12Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > He had already disavowed him the night before. So then you’re saying Trump was lying when he told Tapper he didn’t know anything about David Duke? > [@](#): > > The constant mentioning of Trump with KKK/Nazis is an attempt to associate him with these ideologies and persons that he has never supported, and he responded appropriately by refusing to go meekly along with the implication that he was associated with them. Or he could have, you know, said “I disavow these people” instead of being wishy-washy for fear of alienating the racists who support him. > [@](#): > > It’s an antiqued and desperate line of attack by those ill equipped and too lazy to craft an appropriate response to a popular nationalist and natavist candidate who isn’t using racialist language Aside from when he tweets about “white genocide” and posts false statistics about black-on-white violence and calls all Mexicans rapists and says that all Muslims hate America. You find a link to that video of angry blacks cheering for Bernie Sanders while shooting at firetrucks and smashing car windows yet? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/119 "2016-03-12T18:15:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He was given a specific opportunity to _deny_ any association with that figure. > > _He explicitly didn’t take it._ Wrong, he specifically denied any association. > [@](#): > > In other words, you don’t have links to any such videos, because that video doesn’t exist, because none of those things happened. You didn’t answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710/120 "2016-03-12T18:17:28Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Should I even bother to take the time? If I do so are you going to demand that Sanders disavow those of his supporters who used force and violence to shut down their opponent’s political rally? Of course I expect Sanders to sharply rebuke supporters who use violence. Betcha a dollar it happens in the next 24 hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sanderss-supporters-brownshirts-stop-trump-rally-in-chicago/748710.md?page=7)