# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/281 "2015-07-23T03:21:59Z")
> [@XT](#): > > He’s not entitled to be a human? Good luck with that. Why do you ask this about him, but not her? It’s legal for a citizen to express outrage over conduct that makes them unhappy, without being penalized by the State. The 1st amendment affords us this right. Being a loudmouth bitch with an attitude is a constitutionally protected activity. Yup, even if you’re a black loudmouth bitch. A cop, as an agent of the State, has to respect the Constitution while executing his duties or risk losing his badge. Which means he is held to a completely different standard than a non-cop. See how this works? It is not a crime to express anger at a traffic stop. Being visibly angry also doesn’t give a cop license to assault you, harrass you, or detain you. ETA: Being angry also doesn’t make you a bitch. It’s sad that I even have to type this. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/282 "2015-07-23T03:22:07Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Cmon you watchin a different movie? > > He invited her to weigh in on stopping her for changing lanes in getting out of his way. She was civil but blunt, and cooperative. She is the taxpayer and he is the cop whose scene it is. She wasn’t required to be professional. > Nothing really happened until the cigarette. Sorry, that’s not what I saw. And presumably I watched the same video as you, since it was linked in the OP (second video on the page). She had an attitude right from the get go. Good grief, we have the freaking transcript: > [@](#): > > TROOPER: “You OK?” > > BLAND: “I’m waiting on you. This is your job. I’m waiting on you. What do you want me to do?” > > TROOPER: “You seem very irritated.” > > BLAND: “I am. I really am. Because of what I’ve been stopped and am getting a ticket for. I’ve been getting out of the way. You’ve been speeding up, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated. But that didn’t stop you from giving me a ticket.” > > TROOPER: “Are you done?” > > BLAND: “You asked me what was wrong and I told you. So now I’m done, yeah.” > > TROOPER: “OK, OK.” And thanks to the urging of You, I watched the video, which indeed gives additional context…her voice dripped sarcasm and anger. Like I said, he started off relatively polite and controlled, she started out angry and sarcastic. It then blew up from there. The cigarette was basically the final straw for him for whatever reason (probably one of those rabid anti-smoker types I can’t stand). The REAL explosion was when he asked her to step out of the car, which from everything I’ve seen he was well within his ‘rights’ to do, and she point blank refused and then refused to talk to him and freaked out when he opened her door. HE then went nuts and reached in and tried to drag her out. She fought back and things just went rapidly downhill from there. And all for a stupid, silly traffic violation which could have been resolved in a few minutes. Just take the stupid ticket. Smile at the officer or, at a minimum be polite. Drive away. Simple, really. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/283 "2015-07-23T03:23:33Z")
Bland family attorney answered that question. He said that there are some materials needed from the first autopsy that they have not received from the state that is necessary for the completion of their autopsy. Obviously, the State of Texas has not completed its autopsy otherwise they would have released it. You think? Or maybe they want access to the body to add something or retrieve something they didn’t think to… err… never mind. You’re obviously an apologist for this police officer. You’ve used every excuse in the book so far to find Ms. Bland responsible for her own death. I can assure that this won’t go well for Texas and that Police officer. Give this a few weeks when all of it blows wide open ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/284 "2015-07-23T03:24:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why do you ask this about him, but not her? > > It’s legal for a citizen to express outrage over conduct that makes them unhappy, without being penalized by the State. The 1st amendment affords us this right. Being a loudmouth bitch with an attitude is a constitutionally protected activity. Yup, even if you’re a black loudmouth bitch. > > A cop, as an agent of the State, has to respect the Constitution with executing his duties or risk losing his badge. Which means he is held to a completely different standard than a non-cop. > > See how this works? It is not a crime to express anger at a traffic stop. Being visibly angry also doesn’t give a cop license to assault you, harrass you, or detain you. You can be as angry as you like as long as you follow the polices instructions when they are lawfully given…which the order for her to get out of the vehicle was. Certainly she is entitled to be human as well…which she was. How did this result pan out for these two humans, in your honest evaluation of this cluster fuck? Were they both amply rewarded for losing their tempers and being angry at each other? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/285 "2015-07-23T03:31:30Z")
No offence to **Bricker** (and though I understand the need for lawyers), his legal justification for egregious applications of what’s “legally” sound makes me despise lawyers all that much more in cases like these. They justify technicality over common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/286 "2015-07-23T03:32:00Z")
Really though, reaching into the car to pull her out was likely a tactical error. If a person in a vehicle refuses to get out I was under the impression that the recommended way to force exit would be to tase them first to force compliance. Reaching in exposes the officer to all sorts of unknown risks. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/287 "2015-07-23T03:32:39Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > So let’s see what happened here: > > A criminal who was incapable of driving properly was duly pulled over by law enforcement. She immediately assumed a combative and uncooperative attitude towards the officer, refusing direct lawful orders and resisting arrest. In a testament to the professionalism and competence of American law enforcement, she was arrested without harm to herself or others. > > Like many leftists, she suffered from mental illness. She consequently committed suicide in her cell, possibly correctly predicting that her death would continue the progressive narrative of a surge in law enforcement violence (when actual facts indicate that police brutality is at an all time low). The video of her cell, the autopsy report, and the scarcity of lynchings in the last five decades all support the obvious conclusion of suicide. If you wish to post rants, go open a thread in The BBQ Pit. Slanting descriptions in a way that goes beyond “perspective” to deliberate polemic and littering one’s post with insults is not appropriate to this Forum. Do not do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/288 "2015-07-23T03:33:55Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Certainly she is entitled to be human as well…which she was. How did this result pan out for these two humans, in your honest evaluation of this cluster fuck? And how much of your humanity are you willing to give up to stay safe from abusive cops? 10%? 30%? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/289 "2015-07-23T03:34:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Really though, reaching into the car to pull her out was likely a tactical error. If a person in a vehicle refuses to get out I was under the impression that the recommended way to force exit would be to tase them first to force compliance. Reaching in exposes the officer to all sorts of unknown risks. It was a mistake on a bunch of levels, but obviously this guy lost it and allowed his temper to rule his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/290 "2015-07-23T03:36:48Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > I can assure that this won’t go well for Texas and that Police officer. Give this a few weeks when all of it blows wide open Would you like to make a bet? I say it will be found to be a suicide. What do you say? My usual bet, $100 to winner’s favorite charity. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/291 "2015-07-23T03:38:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And how much of your humanity are you willing to give up to safe from abusive cops? 10%? 30%? You are kidding, right? I’m a hispanic who grew up in the south west in the 60’s and 70’s. MY parents taught me that if a (white) cop pulls you over you freaking do what they say, you smile and be polite and then you drive away…alive. TODAY in my part of the country cops regularly shoot (mostly hispanic) males in confrontations like this (and sometimes, like happened recently, the guy in the car that was pulled over just started shooting at the cop when pulled over). That’s what I told MY kids…if you are pulled over you smile, be polite, do what the cop tells you then drive away…alive. I want to stay that way and I want my kids to stay that way, as well as the rest of my family. YMMV and I wish you luck being a black woman with a chip on your shoulder and letting yourself get angry and confrontational with (mostly white) cops. I’m just glad you (and some of the other folks in these sorts of threads who want to push things) aren’t my daughter, since I’d be even older and grayer than I am worrying about you constantly. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/292 "2015-07-23T03:46:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Are you sure this wouldn’t happen to a [Caucasian](http://wtkr.com/2015/04/09/virginia-beach-police-investigating-forceful-viral-video-arrest/)? This guy even got tased for his trouble. :eek: Here’s a [72 year old white grandmother getting tased](http://www.prisonplanet.com/cop-cleared-by-grand-jury-for-tasering-great-grandmother-during-speeding-stop.html) for not signing a citation, and a combination of trying to return to her vehicle after being ordered to exit. What does this mean, sometimes cops act like dicks. Sometimes it’s legal. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > But there is a requirement that there must be a reason for the arrest, no? Yes. > [@](#): > > You ought to know you’re being arrested too? So you should be informed of the arrest? Not necessarily. This goes more to the reasonble person standard and I think it was clear that Bland was being detained/arrested. > [@](#): > > If I act like you’re arrested and you don’t know it, I need to make it clear no? Like before I assault, batter, break and enter, threaten with violence? (She thought she was not under arrest and told him. Must he answer that she is?) It needs to e clera o a reasonable person, not necessarily to the person being arrested. If an arrest is lawful, then necessary force to execute that arrest cannot be criminal assault, battery, break and enter, etc. > [@](#): > > Or maybe: If I’m a cop you must assume you are arrested as soon as I assault you, because I am a cop? Again, the reasonable person standard. > [@](#): > > A cop can order you to do something and if you don’t comply within (5 seconds) may assault and batter you? Situational. Escalation of force may be legal depending on the circumstances, or it may not be. > [@](#): > > Who determines the reasonable amount of time required to process such a police request in your mind before it becomes a violent confrontation? Departments may have their own policies, but disagreements will be resolved in the courts and the legislature, not at the point of arrest or detention. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > See how this works? It is not a crime to express anger at a traffic stop. Being visibly angry also doesn’t give a cop license to assault you, harrass you, or detain you. I don’t think this is necessarily true. Probable cause to arrest is based on the totality of the circumstances. A driver who is overly agitated can be a factor in this assessment. So while it seems, correctly so, that [flipping off the police is perfectly legal](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/03/flip-off-police_n_2403563.html)and not basis for reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation, an agitated driver could contribute to an assessment of reasonable suspicion or probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/293 "2015-07-23T03:51:54Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You can be as angry as you like as long as you follow the polices instructions when they are lawfully given…which the order for her to get out of the vehicle was. Certainly she is entitled to be human as well…which she was. How did this result pan out for these two humans, in your honest evaluation of this cluster fuck? Were they both amply rewarded for losing their tempers and being angry at each other? Are you serious? She was asked if she would mind putting out her cigarette. She replied that yes, she would, it’s her car and her cigarette. Totally within her right. Then he demanded she step out of the vehicle. In what world does that add up, “lawfully”? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/294 "2015-07-23T03:53:14Z")
If you think that’s normal acceptable behavior for a cop then I think you must be watching too many tv shows and movies. The lip on a person is not reason to grab them. Can a cop break down your door if there’s loud music and he can smell weed? There was no common sense to his actions. But hers I can see quite easily. She was being bullied by a cop, maybe feeling threatened over a new job starting, and she became a bitch. But everything she said verbally he responded to by physical force on her body. You think that’s an equal playing field? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/295 "2015-07-23T03:59:01Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Are you serious? > > She was asked if she would mind putting out her cigarette. She replied that yes, she would, it’s her car and her cigarette. Totally within her right. > > Then he demanded she step out of the vehicle. > > In what world does that add up, “lawfully”? In this one. According to the Supreme Court decision that I cited earlier, Pennsylvania v. Mimms, the police officer during a traffic violation stop can lawfully order you to step out of the car for any (or no ) reason whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/296 "2015-07-23T04:00:04Z")
Bone said: I think it was clear that Bland was being detained/arrested. I don’t think that’s what the tape shows. It became clear after a whole lot of bad coppery. She was advised of it by brute force. Not cool on a traffic stop. Unless youre in a black neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/297 "2015-07-23T04:02:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In this one. According to the Supreme Court decision that I cited earlier, Pennsylvania v. Mimms, the police officer during a traffic violation stop can lawfully order you to step out of the car for any (or no ) reason whatsoever. And the reasonable standard for notification of such request, and force used will be the Bland warning. Because it’s clear we got a problem here. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/298 "2015-07-23T04:02:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In this one. According to the Supreme Court decision that I cited earlier, Pennsylvania v. Mimms, the police officer during a traffic violation stop can lawfully order you to step out of the car for any (or no ) reason whatsoever. It would have been considerate to let her know that, before he started manhandling her and tased her. But again, why use professional courtesy and common sense, if the obscure laws are on your side? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/299 "2015-07-23T04:07:28Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > And the reasonable standard for notification of such request, and force used will be the Bland warning. Because it’s clear we got a problem here. > [@cmyk](#): > > It would have been considerate to let her know that, before he started manhandling her and tased her. > > But again, why use professional courtesy and common sense, if the obscure laws are on your side? Um, I don’t think there was any tasing. And it is not “obscure”. If a police officer, during a traffic stop, asks you to step out of the car, you step out of the car. Why would you think that you should be able to refuse? Is there some inherent “right” to remain in your car? If a police officer motions to you that you should pull over, or drives behind you with blinkers on, do you think you should be able to just drive and ignore him? Is that “obscure” as well? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/300 "2015-07-23T04:13:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Um, I don’t think there was any tasing. > > And it is not “obscure”. If a police officer, during a traffic stop, asks you to step out of the car, you step out of the car. Why would you think that you should be able to refuse? Is there some inherent “right” to remain in your car? > > If a police officer motions to you that you should pull over, or drives behind you with blinkers on, do you think you should be able to just drive and ignore him? Is that “obscure” as well? By the same token he didn’t have an inherent right to tear open the door, grab her bodily, and threaten to light her up with a taser in response to her statements. As a police officer he was an epic failure; as a citizen she at least deserved competent law enforcement. It was his failures that put her in jail where she shouldn’t have been. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=16)