# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/321 "2015-07-23T05:08:47Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > No. It happened when she refused to get out of her car when lawfully ordered. Hell, it may not have even happened then. The cop may well have still let her go with a warning after giving her a little shit. But no, in the video I watched, she escalates pretty much every chance she gets. Which was undeniably idiotic according to any common sense, let alone a professional LEO. Getting uppity or bitchy is no excuse to make an arrest, unless he suspected other criminal activity, which I wholly doubt was the case. He just let it get personal, because he is a shit police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/322 "2015-07-23T05:11:19Z")
Hmmmm. The video of the traffic stop and arrest linked in Post #2 has been taken down. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/323 "2015-07-23T05:12:51Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It does in fact depend on state laws. Bland wasn’t arrested in any of the states you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/324 "2015-07-23T05:17:49Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Getting uppity or bitchy is no excuse to make an arrest, unless he suspected other criminal activity, which I wholly doubt was the case. He just let it get personal, because he is a shit police officer. Agreed. He should have given her a warning, or a ticket and shined it on. She made it personal, she talked her way into that cell and that is where she died. That cop didn’t hang her. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/325 "2015-07-23T05:19:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Bland wasn’t arrested in any of the states you mentioned. No shit? Damn I’m foiled then. I had thoght that \*\*Terr \*\*said it doesn’t depend on State laws in the application of Mimms in the entire country. Oh - that’s right, he did say that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/326 "2015-07-23T05:21:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No shit? Damn I’m foiled then. I had thoght that \*\*Terr \*\*said it doesn’t depend on State laws in the application of Mimms in the entire country. Oh - that’s right, he did say that. It’s funny how people are interested in “states’ rights”, but only in certain circumstances. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/327 "2015-07-23T05:26:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s funny how people are interested in “states’ rights”, but only in certain circumstances. :rolleyes: cool story, bro. Do you like bacon? That is about as relevant. \*\*Terr \*\*made a factual error. Knowing what the law actually is is pretty important if you want to advocate for change. So when people get the law wrong, like thinking she didn’t have to exit when ordered in Texas, that needs to be corrected. When people think that the officer needs to tell the person why he’s arresting them, that needs to be corrected. And when \*\*Terr \*\*states that Mimms applies to all states, that needs to be corrected. Facts matter. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/328 "2015-07-23T05:29:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No shit? Damn I’m foiled then. I had thoght that \*\*Terr \*\*said it doesn’t depend on State laws in the application of Mimms in the entire country. Oh - that’s right, he did say that. It makes it more egregious to defend the cop. He is entrusted with dealing with out of state motorists who may not know they are under arrest by his passive aggressive hostile response to small situations. If he’s relying on State law to be that way, without advising his arrestees it’s wrong and she should not have been in custody. It’s on the state. And I hope to god that guy doesn’t get a public pension. BTW did you see the tow truck and the ambulance and the trials. We all pay for that forever ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/329 "2015-07-23T05:30:50Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > But the “arrest” didn’t happen until she refused to put out her cigarette. What else could be the grounds for arrest (besides resisting “arrest” when the idiot cop decided to employ physical force)? [http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/TN/7/C/542/E/542.501](http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/TN/7/C/542/E/542.501) A person may not wilfully fail or refuse to comply with a lawful order or direction of: (1) a police officer; or (2) a school crossing guard who: (A) is performing crossing guard duties in a school crosswalk to stop and yield to a pedestrian; or (B) has been trained under Section 600.004 and is directing traffic in a school crossing zone. - See more at: [http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/TN/7/C/542/E/542.501#sthash.uYlE2kld.dpuf](http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/TN/7/C/542/E/542.501#sthash.uYlE2kld.dpuf) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/330 "2015-07-23T05:33:50Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No shit? Damn I’m foiled then. I had thoght that \*\*Terr \*\*said it doesn’t depend on State laws in the application of Mimms in the entire country. Oh - that’s right, he did say that. I stand corrected. I think it applies in Texas (and Illinois for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/331 "2015-07-23T05:37:58Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I came away with the impression he was trying to give her a break, He gave her a break all right. According to her sister the pig gave her a broken arm. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/332 "2015-07-23T05:41:27Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > He gave her a break all right. According to her sister the pig gave her a broken arm. According to some “witnesses”, he also dragged her out through the window of her car. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/333 "2015-07-23T05:50:22Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Agreed. He should have given her a warning, or a ticket and shined it on. She made it personal, she talked her way into that cell and that is where she died. That cop didn’t hang her. No dude, HE made it personal by making the choice to pull a weapon on her then put his hands on her and pull her out of the car. Nothing that she said or did warranted that type of response. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/334 "2015-07-23T06:03:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > According to some “witnesses”, he also dragged her out through the window of her car. Treated like dirt and left for dead for a traffic violation is just beyond the pale. If these assholes thought she was suicidal why didn’t they watch her closely while in custody? I don’t think they ever thought she was suicidal. She may have admitted to depression over the loss of a baby, but damn, that’s pretty standard/natural for any woman, regardless of their mental status. Certainly we know she said he slammed her head on the ground. That injury is what concerns me the most. Who knows? Obviously she sustained injuries that went untreated. A cerebral hemorrhage could have occurred and a few days of internal bleeding in a jail cell could have killed her. I could be completely off base, but the Texas Rangers aren’t giving me squat to think otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/335 "2015-07-23T06:44:40Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Well, okay. I won’t then. > > I think its been fairly established in this thread already that _failure to comply_ is grounds for arrest, and in Texas, the original reason for the stop. I’m not a lawyer, but I can read. No **she** was arrested for assaulting a police officer. That fucking dick with a taser arrests her with a charge that sticks it to her good, since she didn’t put out her cigarette. She didn’t comply, but so what? The cigarette wasn’t a threat, but his big ol white authoritarian bullshit ego felt maligned. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/336 "2015-07-23T06:57:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I stand corrected. I think it applies in Texas (and Illinois for that matter). That seems right to me. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/337 "2015-07-23T07:43:23Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > She clearly blew through that STOP sign. I believe that’s why he turned around and followed. Do you have a cite about her going through a stop sign? Because the cop never mentions it when he tells her why he stopped her - he just mentions the failure to signal. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Hmmmm. The video of the traffic stop and arrest linked in Post #2 has been taken down. Yes, they removed it in some places when they put out the new version. The original is still available: [original (uncut) Sandra Bland arrest video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBh3wzXd3vg) ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/338 "2015-07-23T08:19:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah well, if it’s a tweet repeated by the family attorney, it MUST be true. > > BTW - the family ordered an [independent autopsy that was supposed to be concluded by now](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07/19/us/ap-us-woman-dead-in-jail.html). Do you think the autopsy has shown she was murdered and the family is hiding that fact? If he says he received a text message from them, he should be able to prove it. As it turns out, they deny saying the autopsy was defective, but confirm that they asked the family to keep the body available for “further investigation”. I’m wondering if they followed the correct protocol once they found the body. It shouldn’t be cut down until the scene is photographed and examined for further evidence. Also, determining whether hanging is suicide or homicide is tricky. Here is a [forensics cite](http://dmmoyle.com/simeans.htm): > [@](#): > > An inverted v-shaped furrow around the neck of a hanging victim is characteristic of suspension hanging deaths. This furrow should be parchment white immediately after death, with a congested looking reddish rim. With time it will turn brown and become more prominent if the body is not cut down immediately. The furrow should encircle the neck immediately under the ligature and then move upwards toward the point of the knot. Just before the two ends of the furrow close, they should taper out where the knot pulled away from the skin. > > Anytime the investigator does not see this inverted v-shaped furrow, he should question whether a hanging has actually occurred. If the furrow completely encircles the neck and is not v-shaped, then the death was not due to a suspension hanging. It may have been due to strangulation. Strangulation furrows tend fully encircle the neck, unless the strangler twisted the back of the ligature to tighten it. If the ligature was twisted, then only a few inches of the furrow, usually at the back of the neck, would not show. > > It is extremely difficult to strangle oneself suicidally and homicide should be suspected. It is technically possible for someone to arrange a ligature strangulation of themselves; however, they have only 10-15 seconds to secure the ligature before they lose consciousness. If they have not properly secured it by that time, they will regain consciousness and survive. > > Non-v-shaped furrows can be produced by non-suspensions hangings, where the victim just leaned against the ligature. In that case, the furrow would only go slightly more than half-way around the neck > > Inverted v-shaped furrows can be artificially produced in a non-hanging death if the body is hung within two hours of death. More information available at the link. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/339 "2015-07-23T08:28:55Z")
> [@camille](#): > > I’m wondering if they followed the correct protocol once they found the body. It shouldn’t be cut down until the scene is photographed and examined for further evidence. Surely the correct protocol is to cut the body down immediately in case the person is _still alive_? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/340 "2015-07-23T09:12:15Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Surely the correct protocol is to cut the body down immediately in case the person is _still alive_? Unless you are witnessing the hanging and can stop it immediately, there’s really no chance: > [@](#): > > As noted above, only four pounds of pressure is needed to close off the jugular vein and eleven pound to close off the carotid artery. Since the adult human head typically weighs between 10 and 12 pounds, it is by no means necessary for the complete weight of the body to be hung freely in order for a hanging to produce death. Simply leaning into a ligature or slumping down a little bit, or even just letting one’s head hang loosely, will close off two of the important blood vessels that supply the brain. \*\*This is enough to produce unconsciousness in ten seconds and once unconscious, recovery is unlikely. \*\* In any case, according to reports, they did cut her down right away and attempted CPR (or so they say), which makes it even more difficult to determine what happened. No photos, and a compromised crime scene. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=18)