# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/381 "2015-07-23T13:42:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s a great analogy, because it’s legal for a guy to rape a woman who doesn’t watch her drink. I think the point is better expressed that failing to keep your mouth shut to a cop doesn’t make you deserve to be arrested any more than failing to watch your drink makes you deserve to be raped. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/382 "2015-07-23T13:45:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Another show of hands - who uses their turn signal when moving over to give the right of way to cops/ambulances/fire trucks? Are you EFing kidding me? I’m not known for using my turn signal as I should (hey, sue me, I’m from New England), but if I’m moving over to let a cop pass??? Absolutely 100% of the time. That’s like asking if I come to a full stop at a stop sign if I know a cop is right behind me. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/383 "2015-07-23T13:46:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Right? Let’s take what I said out of the overall context and focus on that because then you can build a strawman! When did you become such an unreasonable poster, or have you always been this way and I’m misremembering? Am I building a strawman? Why would you think I’m being unreasonable? What evidence is there for arresting her, other than she was disrespecting his authority? In other words, he just didn’t like how she was treating him, so, arrest her! The technicality of the law might make arresting her for any willy-nilly reason he wants legal, but that doesn’t make it the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/384 "2015-07-23T13:47:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you look at the whole situation you are probably right. > > The issue is police conduct. > > If you want to make an argument that if we live in Orwell’s “1984” the best option is not to do things that get you in trouble with that state then fine…make that argument. > > The people complaining is this thread are bitching about the system. We are not saying there is no law to get Sandra Bland. We are saying the laws that got her are too broad as to scoop up nearly anyone at the officer’s discretion. > > “Officer’s discretion” in such cases seems to all too often to be “driving while black”. As has been noted would you expect a white, middle class woman getting the same treatment by that officer (all else being equal)? I think that the officer in question is going to get hammered for his conduct…and, at least what I saw in the video he should be. I’m not disputing any of that. I disagree that this is a case of ‘driving while black’…I think it’s a case of two people who instantly got on each others nerves in what should have been a mere traffic stop. But I concede that MMV, and around here it seems that jumping to it being a full on racial issue is the default setting. Even if it was a racial issue I think that this whole sorry mess could have been avoided by a bit of common sense and curtsy on both sides. Now we have one lady dead and a cop who has probably shot his career in the foot, as well as yet another explosive and rancorous police issue…and over a freaking stupid traffic violation! ---
**Author:** ![climbuponahilltop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@climbuponahilltop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/climbuponahilltop)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/385 "2015-07-23T13:49:05Z")
During the exceedingly brief interaction prior to the cigarette request, Blunt was plain-spoken and gruff, but not in any way verbally abusive. If she had spoken in that manner to a server at a restaurant, she would not have been asked to leave. She was relatively civil, just not charming or deferential or flirtatious or groveling. And I’m uncomfortable with the idea of a justice system in which getting arrested hinges not on what you do, but on if the officer finds you likable or not. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/386 "2015-07-23T13:50:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you EFing kidding me? I’m not known for using my turn signal as I should (hey, sue me, I’m from New England), but if I’m moving over to let a cop pass??? Absolutely 100% of the time. That’s like asking if I come to a full stop at a stop sign if I know a cop is right behind me. I’m kinda anal about using turn signals myself. If a bend in the road is tight enough I have been known to reflexively signal. Regardless of how dutiful we are about signaling the questions at hand are: A) Should you be pulled over for it (yes…you CAN be pulled over for it but SHOULD you be pulled over for it?) B) Does failing to signal merit being physically pulled out of your car (when there is literally no other issue at hand)? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/387 "2015-07-23T13:53:26Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Am I building a strawman? Yes…MY point had nothing to do with ‘someone was being all meany mean to him. His wittle feewings got all hurted inside’. So, yeah…strawman. > [@](#): > > What evidence is there for arresting her, other than she was disrespecting his authority? She refused a lawful order to exit her vehicle. This has been explained in this thread several times. The CNN video pretty much says the same thing. He WAS within his right to ask her to leave, and when she didn’t he was within his rights to arrest her for resisting. Whether he could have made that fly in court would have been up to the courts (I doubt it, based on what I’ve read on this), but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t arrest her. > [@](#): > > n other words, he just didn’t like how she was treating him, so, arrest her! She refused a lawful order from a duly appointed police officer to exit her vehicle. That he was at least half (if not more) of the problem in escalating this cluster fuck is beside the point. She tried to rules lawyer this guy and resist said lawful order and so got herself arrested for it. > [@](#): > > The technicality of the law might make arresting her for any willy-nilly reason he wants, but that doesn’t make it the right thing to do. The right thing to do?? He was entitled to do what he did, as has been pointed out several times in this thread. He can have a reason or no reason in a lawful traffic stop to ask her to exit her vehicle. As for technicalities, it’s those very things that make up the law. I bet that if you (or I or anyone) can use a technicality to get out of something wrt the law we aren’t going refuse to do it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/388 "2015-07-23T13:58:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you EFing kidding me? I’m not known for using my turn signal as I should (hey, sue me, I’m from New England), but if I’m moving over to let a cop pass??? Absolutely 100% of the time. That’s like asking if I come to a full stop at a stop sign if I know a cop is right behind me. You’re probably right. I may have been conflating the more common situation of emergency vehicles with lights flashing. I know I’m always super careful when I see a cop, and blow a sigh of relief when they make a different turn or pass me. I think, tho, many people may not be thinking their best when a cop is right behind them. Similar to my dislike about red light cameras. Instead of thinking about progressing through the intersection safely, I’m worried about the camera. I can imagine people getting flustered when they see a cop in their rearview mirror. IMO, an understandable reaction to a cop’s potential to cost you considerable time, money, and inconvenience. “Geez - what if one of my taillights is out? Did I do something wrong before I noticed the cop?” For many law-abiding people, any interaction with police can be stressful. In many peoples’ minds, I imagine they are thinking, “I was simply minding my business and want you to go away.” Probably not best to say, tho. The cop is under no obligation to tell the whole truth about why he is talking to you. So it is often a good idea to restrain yourself from offering any more than required, or from trying to guess what the cop is after. Be polite, brief in your responses, cooperative in your actions, and hope for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/389 "2015-07-23T13:58:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think that the officer in question is going to get hammered for his conduct…and, at least what I saw in the video he should be. I’m not disputing any of that. I disagree that this is a case of ‘driving while black’…I think it’s a case of two people who instantly got on each others nerves in what should have been a mere traffic stop. But I concede that MMV, and around here it seems that jumping to it being a full on racial issue is the default setting. Even if it was a racial issue I think that this whole sorry mess could have been avoided by a bit of common sense and curtsy on both sides. Now we have one lady dead and a cop who has probably shot his career in the foot, as well as yet another explosive and rancorous police issue…and over a freaking stupid traffic violation! I would be fine with these things if we saw officers actually being held accountable. For a variety of reasons they aren’t. As for driving while black [statistics bear it out.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/09/you-really-can-get-pulled-over-for-driving-while-black-federal-statistics-show/) Yeah, these two people clearly got on each others nerves. I submit it is the police officer’s duty to remain calm and defuse the situation. The officer in this case actively ramped up the conflict. He had no cause to do that and because he did a woman is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/390 "2015-07-23T13:59:27Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > I think the earlier video shows he was on her ass and explains why she was so pissed when he pulled her over. I’m not really in line with this idea that you should scream in the cop’s face and don’t have to put out your cigarette because THE CONSTITUTION! I mean, you break a traffic law, you take the ticket. But that is not what happened here. He was on her ass and she was justifiably pissed. Miss Bland did not scream at the officer until he was hurting her. The way you wrote it there, you seem to be trying to give people the impression that while Miss Bland was explaining why she was upset she was screaming at the officer; that isn’t an accurate telling of the events. I’d like to point out too that Miss Bland was about to sign her ticket/warning when the escalation began. She at no time refused to sign the ticket or accept it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/391 "2015-07-23T14:00:53Z")
Sensible precaution is the key, here. For instance, your car should be a rolling statement, one that says “I have a buttload of money, and if I am not a lawyer myself, I have one!” Reasonable efforts at complexion control should be observed, with an emphasis on the paler skin tones. Political bumper stickers are best avoided, especially those that reflect an improper attitude towards authority. There should be as little question as possible that you are one of those who are protected and served, and not one of those protected _from_. Such a well maintained regimen of clear respectability can help assure that you are not subject to the vexations and annoyances that are more properly visited upon the unworthy. Policemen respect such courteous considerations, and are more likely to be generous and tolerant of your minor traffic infractions. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/392 "2015-07-23T14:02:47Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Miss Bland did not scream at the officer until he was hurting her. The way you wrote it there, you seem to be trying to give people the impression that while Miss Bland was explaining why she was upset she was screaming at the officer; that isn’t an accurate telling of the events. > > I’d like to point out too that Miss Bland was about to sign her ticket/warning when the escalation began. She at no time refused to sign the ticket or accept it. The way you wrote this response, you suggest that you don’t spend much time reading a post for the content, only for potential “corrections”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/393 "2015-07-23T14:04:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You are correct but it could be re-phrased to: > > _“Can a police officer demand you exit your car when the issue at hand is failing to signal a lane change? If you complain is that resisting arrest?”_ That won’t take years. The answer to the first is Yes. The answer to the second is No, but it is irrelevant to this case because she wasn’t arrested for complaining. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/394 "2015-07-23T14:04:34Z")
> [@XT](#): > > One thing in the video that I didn’t know is that you are well within your rights to bring out your cell phone and record the entire confrontation yourself, since this is a public encounter and not a private one. I didn’t know that, though I assumed it was the case. Good to know, though. Did you notice that Miss Bland was attempting to do that but the officer ordered her to put her phone down, thus ruining her video? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/395 "2015-07-23T14:05:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > She refused a lawful order to exit her vehicle. It seems that he decided to have her exit her vehicle because his feelings were hurt. Up till that point he was content to give her a warning. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/396 "2015-07-23T14:05:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Again, everyone is free to view it however they want. I see it as an unnecessary remark by someone who is greatly in a position of power, and who should know that the person he is dealing with is likely less than pleased about the encounter. What good is served by the gratuitous statement? A traffic cop complimenting and encouraging safe practices, my word, when did this turn into Orwellian Nazi Russia??? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/397 "2015-07-23T14:05:37Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > The way you wrote this response, you suggest that you don’t spend much time reading a post for the content, only for potential “corrections”. At least my post was an accurate summation of events. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/398 "2015-07-23T14:06:36Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yes…MY point had nothing to do with ‘someone was being all meany mean to him. His wittle feewings got all hurted inside’. So, yeah…strawman. > > She refused a lawful order to exit her vehicle. This has been explained in this thread several times. The CNN video pretty much says the same thing. He WAS within his right to ask her to leave, and when she didn’t he was within his rights to arrest her for resisting. Whether he could have made that fly in court would have been up to the courts (I doubt it, based on what I’ve read on this), but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t arrest her. > > She refused a lawful order from a duly appointed police officer to exit her vehicle. That he was at least half (if not more) of the problem in escalating this cluster fuck is beside the point. She tried to rules lawyer this guy and resist said lawful order and so got herself arrested for it. > > The right thing to do?? He was entitled to do what he did, as has been pointed out several times in this thread. He can have a reason or no reason in a lawful traffic stop to ask her to exit her vehicle. As for technicalities, it’s those very things that make up the law. I bet that if you (or I or anyone) can use a technicality to get out of something wrt the law we aren’t going refuse to do it. 😛 I get that the laws allowed him to do everything he did. And that’s the whole problem. An officer _should_ have an actual reason for making an arrest. You know, like committing a crime or something. “Would you mind putting out your cigarette?” “Yes I mind.” “Ok. I’m gonna have to ask you to step out of your vehicle.” In what world does that make any sense? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/399 "2015-07-23T14:09:01Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think that the officer in question is going to get hammered for his conduct…and, at least what I saw in the video he should be. I’m not disputing any of that. I disagree that this is a case of ‘driving while black’…I think it’s a case of two people who instantly got on each others nerves in what should have been a mere traffic stop. But I concede that MMV, and around here it seems that jumping to it being a full on racial issue is the default setting. Even if it was a racial issue I think that this whole sorry mess could have been avoided by a bit of common sense and curtsy on both sides. Now we have one lady dead and a cop who has probably shot his career in the foot, as well as yet another explosive and rancorous police issue… **and over a freaking stupid traffic violation**! Do you, or anyone else, really think that the arrest happened because of the traffic violation and not because of Miss Bland’s lack of deference and subservience to the officer? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/400 "2015-07-23T14:09:10Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I get that the laws allowed him to do everything he did. And that’s the whole problem. An officer _should_ have an actual reason for making an arrest. You know, like commuting a crime or something. Or like committing one even. 😉 And I get that as well. But the plain fact is he DID have the right to ask her to leave the car and when she didn’t he had the right to arrest her. Whether any of that would have stood up in court is kind of moot at this point, since now she is dead. Basically, if the law is wrong and cops shouldn’t have the authorization to ask people to leave their car then the right place to fight that is in the freaking court room, not on a message board and sure as hell not on the side of the road with a pissed off dude with a badge and a gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=21)