# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/401 "2015-07-23T14:10:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you, or anyone else, really think that the arrest happened because of the traffic violation and not because of Miss Bland’s lack of deference and subservience to the officer? I think that the arrest happened when Sandra refused to get out of her car and dance to this cops tune. It gave him the excuse to arrest her and take her in. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/402 "2015-07-23T14:16:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you, or anyone else, really think that the arrest happened because of the traffic violation and not because of Miss Bland’s lack of deference and subservience to the officer? If by “lack of deference and subservience” you mean “refusal to obey a lawful order”, then yes, that’s why the arrest happened. I think much of the basis for disagreement in this thread is assumptions. One side thinks that, if the cops give you a lawful order, you shouldn’t have to obey if you don’t feel it’s justified. The other side does. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/403 "2015-07-23T14:17:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Did you notice that Miss Bland was attempting to do that but the officer ordered her to put her phone down, thus ruining her video? He also tried to order eye-witnesses recording the debacle to leave the scene. Um, no. Public property, sir. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/404 "2015-07-23T14:18:13Z")
> [@XT](#): > > She refused a lawful order to exit her vehicle. Just a quick correction, the officer was suspended for issuing an _unlawful_ order to exit the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/405 "2015-07-23T14:19:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If by “lack of deference and subservience” you mean “refusal to obey a lawful order”, then yes, that’s why the arrest happened. The request to extinguish her cigarette was the lawful order in question? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/406 "2015-07-23T14:20:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Just a quick correction, the officer was suspended for issuing an _unlawful_ order to exit the vehicle. Do you have a cite for that? I thought it was the threat to Taser her. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/407 "2015-07-23T14:20:18Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think that the arrest happened when Sandra refused to get out of her car and dance to this cops tune. It gave him the excuse to arrest her and take her in. Do you think that was right for him to do? Legality aside, do you think police officers should not only look for excuses to arrest someone, but provoke an individual so that they are certain to find those “excuses”? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/408 "2015-07-23T14:20:53Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Just a quick correction, the officer was suspended for issuing an _unlawful_ order to exit the vehicle. Can you provide a citation for this? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/409 "2015-07-23T14:22:06Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Just a quick correction, the officer was suspended for issuing an _unlawful_ order to exit the vehicle. Cite? Everything I’ve read says he had the legal right to order her from the vehicle. Another [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/opinions/cevallos-sandra-bland-traffic-stop/index.html) article on it: > [@](#): > > CNN)Texas police have released disturbing audio and video of the traffic stop of motorist Sandra Bland, who later died in a jail cell. The encounter between Bland and a state trooper raises anew some vital questions about citizens’ rights during a routine traffic stop. > > The officer’s behavior should be viewed through at least two standards. First, was his conduct legal? Perhaps more important, even if it was legal, was it fair? > > In the sometimes nebulous law of car stops, there are a few bright-line rules. One of these rules will inform how this video will be scrutinized over the next few days, and it is this: > > If your motor vehicle is lawfully stopped for a traffic violation, police can order you out of the car. Period. > > Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia stopped Bland on July 10, supposedly for not signaling a turn. After Trooper Encinia decided to issue only a warning, but before Bland knew she was free to leave, he asked her why she was upset. Then he ordered her to extinguish her cigarette. Bland refused. Trooper Encinia then ordered her to step out of the car. When she refused that, Encinia told her she was under arrest, saying, “I am giving you a lawful order” and pulling a weapon that looks to be a Taser. > > In an instant, this escalated from a mere warning to the Trooper shouting, “Get out of the car!” and threatening to “…light you up! Get out! Now!” > > Like the vast majority of citizens, Sandra Bland appeared to be just unaware of the rule; as evidenced by her audible objection to the idea that you could be ordered out of your car after failing to signal a turn. Bland says, “Wow, really, for a failure to signal? You’re doing all of this for a failure to signal?” The officer certainly was aware that he had this power. > > Surely he had been trained to know the moment she refused his “exit order,” she unwittingly committed a technical violation that would ultimately form the basis of an arrest. But like most citizens, Bland was shocked at the notion that we can be ordered from our cars during a routine stop. It just feels wrong, doesn’t it? > > Not to the U.S. Supreme Court it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/410 "2015-07-23T14:23:53Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Do you have a cite about her going through a stop sign? Watch the dashcam video. It is pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/411 "2015-07-23T14:25:51Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Do you think that was right for him to do? > > Legality aside, do you think police officers should not only look for excuses to arrest someone, but provoke an individual so that they are lmost certainly likely to find those “excuses”? Right as in right and wrong? I think the whole encounter was grossly mishandled by this state trooper and none of this had to happen. That said, I think that the driver mishandled her part as well and played into his hands in further escalating the confrontation from a mere traffic stop and a warning to an arrest and her death while in jail. Like I’ve said repeatedly in this and other threads like this, whether the cop is right or wrong is irrelevant at the time of the confrontation. Do what he freaking says since he’s got a gun and a taser as well as the authority to do what he thinks he has too do. The time to fight the cop is in the court with the full protection of the legal system and a lawyer at your back, not on the side of the road where you are relying on said cop to be calm and reasonable and without emotion or issue or problem or whatever is up his ass at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/412 "2015-07-23T14:26:40Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Yes, I saw the video. But as I said, the cop never said anything about it. He was giving her a warning citation for failure to signal. It seems odd to me that passing a stop sign wasn’t mentioned to her at all. The dashcam may have played a role. The officer may have thought that driving through the stop sign was not caught on the camera, but the failure to signal definitely was. Or he may have wanted to go easy on her. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/413 "2015-07-23T14:29:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? I thought it was the threat to Taser her. This is what the [PBS Newshour is reporting](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sandra-bland-arrested/), starting about the 0’55" mark of the video. ---
**Author:** ![climbuponahilltop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@climbuponahilltop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/climbuponahilltop)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/414 "2015-07-23T14:31:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Watch the dashcam video. It is pretty clear. And yet Encino never mentions this, to either Blunt or to his supervisor, does not pull her over prior to the line change, and declines to work it into his warning. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/415 "2015-07-23T14:33:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That won’t take years. The answer to the first is Yes. The answer to the second is No, but it is irrelevant to this case because she wasn’t arrested for complaining. Are you kidding me? Did you watch the video? What part rises to “resisting arrest”? Actually I think this is an important point for this thread: Where is the line that denotes resisting arrest as a crime versus griping about being arrested? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/416 "2015-07-23T14:34:04Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > This is what the [PBS Newshour is reporting](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sandra-bland-arrested/), starting about the 0’55" mark of the video. The transcript at the site does not seem to support your assertion. Perhaps you could quote the exact language ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/417 "2015-07-23T14:34:07Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The request to extinguish her cigarette was the lawful order in question? No, exiting the vehicle was the lawful order in question. It may have been mentioned once or twice in the thread previously. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/418 "2015-07-23T14:36:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The dashcam may have played a role. The officer may have thought that driving through the stop sign was not caught on the camera, but the failure to signal definitely was. Or he may have wanted to go easy on her. Maybe so. I don’t think she even saw the stop sign. Isn’t it stupid to post it _after_ the crosswalk? You run people over and\* then\* stop? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/419 "2015-07-23T14:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] What part rises to “resisting arrest”? Actually I think this is an important point for this thread: Where is the line that denotes resisting arrest as a crime versus griping about being arrested? [/QUOTE] When he orders her to exit the car and she refuses, even after he states he’s giving her a lawful order. At that point she is resisting arrest. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/420 "2015-07-23T14:37:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Or like committing one even. 😉 And I get that as well. But the plain fact is he DID have the right to ask her to leave the car and when she didn’t he had the right to arrest her. Whether any of that would have stood up in court is kind of moot at this point, since now she is dead. > > Basically, if the law is wrong and cops shouldn’t have the authorization to ask people to leave their car then the right place to fight that is in the freaking court room, not on a message board and sure as hell not on the side of the road with a pissed off dude with a badge and a gun. A corrected typo on edit. 😉 The CNN article you just posted above pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. He took advantage of the fact she was probably ignorant of refusing to step out of the vehicle can lead directly to arrest. He was simply bent on arresting her, period. And he got his wish. I wonder had she complied, would he have slapped cuffs on her anyway? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=22)