# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/481 "2015-07-23T16:10:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The State has procedures on releasing official documents that may prevent them from doing so. The family, if their independent autopsy showed anything that was different from the official version, would have trumpeted this everywhere. They are not constrained by any procedures. The fact that they haven’t done so can only mean that their autopsy confirms suicide. I don’t doubt that possibility. But they don’t know the official version yet, so how would they know if it was different? It’s also likely that it is inconclusive (see my cite). As I said, they do not have crime scene evidence, and don’t know yet what additional evidence the State has. Under those circumstances, how would you proceed, if you were representing the family? I think I would wait for the investigation to be completed. When does the Grand Jury resume session? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/482 "2015-07-23T16:13:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Can I quote you forever more on this? > > The likes of Cliven Bundy deserve the full weight of the government landing on them? I mean he was given legal orders right? After that he was resisting arrest. His death should be part of that just like this woman. Until they change the law you can. I don’t see how it’s controversial, but if you want to quote me on this forever more like some sort of mole whacking raven, feel free. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/483 "2015-07-23T16:18:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The significance is that _this_ is why Texas wants a further chance to examine the body, not because of conspiracy theories about the medical examniner hiding the truth about her cause of death. Here’s the problem. They bring a body to the ME’s office from the jail, they say she died by hanging herself in her cell. They produce pictures of her doing so. The ME looks at the evidence and agrees the body is consistent with said cause. He has no incentive to look further. Case closed, and he’s on to the next stiff. There’s no cover up by the ME. He never looked beyond what was presented. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/484 "2015-07-23T16:18:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The State has procedures on releasing official documents that may prevent them from doing so. The family, if their independent autopsy showed anything that was different from the official version, would have trumpeted this everywhere. They are not constrained by any procedures. The fact that they haven’t done so can only mean that their autopsy confirms suicide. Or it could mean [you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sandra-bland-lows-highs-sister/story?id=32638296) They haven’t got the results back yet. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/485 "2015-07-23T16:22:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Here’s the problem. They bring a body to the ME’s office from the jail, they say she died by hanging herself in her cell. They produce pictures of her doing so. The ME looks at the evidence and agrees the body is consistent with said cause. He has no incentive to look further. Case closed, and he’s on to the next stiff. There’s no cover up by the ME. He never looked beyond what was presented. So why hasn’t the family released the results of the independent autopsy which would therefore contain The Truth™? In order to assert that Bland’s death was anything other than a suicide, you have to postulate the existence of a massive conspiracy operating across county and state lines involving people with no logical reason to work together, and it’s really no more credible at this point than 9/11 Truthers or Moon landing denialists are. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/486 "2015-07-23T16:25:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or it could mean [you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sandra-bland-lows-highs-sister/story?id=32638296) They haven’t got the results back yet. And yet, you’ll note that _the single most significant detail_ from the preliminary findings that they find worthy of mentioning is “she had injuries consistent with the arresting officer kneeling on her” and not “she was actually strangled to death by a cop and they made it look like a hanging afterward”. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/487 "2015-07-23T16:26:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or it could mean [you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sandra-bland-lows-highs-sister/story?id=32638296) They haven’t got the results back yet. They know the results. As I said, I’m thinking it’s inconclusive; I wouldn’t bet they have bombshell evidence of homicide. I really don’t think we’ll ever know for sure what happened. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/488 "2015-07-23T16:26:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Here’s the problem. They bring a body to the ME’s office from the jail, they say she died by hanging herself in her cell. They produce pictures of her doing so. The ME looks at the evidence and agrees the body is consistent with said cause. He has no incentive to look further. Case closed, and he’s on to the next stiff. There’s no cover up by the ME. He never looked beyond what was presented. Interesting speculation. Is there any actual evidence that this happened? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/489 "2015-07-23T16:28:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In the CNN video then showed the inside of the cell she was in. Now, when they claimed that she hung herself with the liner of a trash can, I thought that a liner from a little can wouldn’t be large enough to do…then I saw the size of the trash barrel they displayed in that tiny cell. If they take away all your possessions, what would be the purpose of having such a large trash receptacle in such a small cell? What’s even weirder is that on the [photos of the scene shown by NBC](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sandra-blands-death-will-be-investigated-murder-district-attorney-n395456), there’s a new liner in the trash bin… but Bland’s knicknacks are still on the table besides the bed. Which means they cleared the body, then took care to leave the scene as it was (notably, you can see the other beds don’t have matresses \*or \*knickknacks on their table, and none of the other beds have prison shoes ready by their side so it’s likely that all of those items are vestiges of Sandra’s presence left in place), but at the same time replaced the bag in the bin ? Even though there are no new prisonners that would require such ? Also the fact that the bin is prominently in the middle of the room, rather than tucked against a wall or in a corner as anybody would do with any bin, and especially with such a large one. Nope, it’s right in the forefront, in prime NOTICE ME, NOTICE ME position. It’s just odd. As is [the jail’s paperwork](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/23/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/490 "2015-07-23T16:31:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So why hasn’t the family released the results of the independent autopsy which would therefore contain The Truth™? > > In order to assert that Bland’s death was anything other than a suicide, you have to postulate the existence of a massive conspiracy operating across county and state lines involving people with no logical reason to work together, and it’s really no more credible at this point than 9/11 Truthers or Moon landing denialists are. Answered directly above your post. But please keep flailing - the breeze is nice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/491 "2015-07-23T16:32:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Also the fact that the bin is prominently in the middle of the room, rather than tucked against a wall or in a corner as anybody would do with any bin, and especially with such a large one. Nope, it’s right in the forefront, in prime NOTICE ME, NOTICE ME position. > > It’s just odd. It’s almost as if they wanted to demonstrate the existence of the trash can to people who think there’s no way anyone could possibly acquire a garbage bag inside a jail cell. You know, like the people earlier in this thread did. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/492 "2015-07-23T16:33:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Answered directly above your post. But please keep flailing - the breeze is nice. Adressed four posts above yours. But keep looking for conspiracies under every rock - the truth is out there. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/493 "2015-07-23T16:35:46Z")
> [@camille](#): > > I don’t doubt that possibility. But they don’t know the official version yet, so how would they know if it was different? > > It’s also likely that it is inconclusive (see my cite). As I said, they do not have crime scene evidence, and don’t know yet what additional evidence the State has. > > Under those circumstances, how would you proceed, if you were representing the family? I think I would wait for the investigation to be completed. When does the Grand Jury resume session? What does Grand Jury have to do with it? First there has to be a criminal indictment. Unless she was actually murdered (again, I will take anyone’s bet - $100 to winner’s favorite charity - that it will still be ruled a suicide) there will be no indictment. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/494 "2015-07-23T16:37:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Interesting speculation. Is there any actual evidence that this happened? In this case, no there isn’t. However, this is what happened in Signal Hills when Ron Settles died by hanging himself in his jail cell. A private autopsy found evidence that suggested the cause of death was a strangle hold, and the cause of death was subsequently changed from suicide to homicide. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/495 "2015-07-23T16:38:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Legality be damned. If it were legal to spike a woman’s drink to make her fall asleep so you could rape her, it’d still be a shitty thing to do, and someone who spent all their time blaming the rape victim instead of the rapist would be acting atrociously. That’s the relevant part of the analogy. > > But if you want a different analogy, when I was growing up [a man could take sex from his wife at any point; “spousal rape” was legally an oxymoron](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1957&dat=19930702&id=_xYxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UOEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6288,228462&hl=en). A woman who spoke harshly to her husband could be forced to have sex with him against her will. And if a woman spoke harshly to her husband and was raped, and you spent all your energy telling her how she shouldn’t have spoken to him that way, I’d think the same thing of your argument as I think of the arguments folks are making here about Bland. The problem with these analogies is that there’s a strong societal interest in having people cooperate with cops. Makes the system run a lot smoother, if it also has the unfortunate side effect of empowering punks (like this one). People who walk around with an attitude that they’re not going to take any guff from any cops are, on the whole, making the world a worse place, IMO. In an ideal world, you’d like to have all cops be dedicated public servants without power-tripping attitudes, but I don’t think that’s achievable. And since that’s the case, the best of what’s available is for people to put up with some petty harrassment here and there. Getting all confrontational every time you think someone overstepped their bounds is not productive for society as a whole, even before discussing the personal consequences for the individual involved. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/496 "2015-07-23T16:38:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or it could mean [you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sandra-bland-lows-highs-sister/story?id=32638296) They haven’t got the results back yet. > **[Independent autopsy performed in jail cell death of Sandra Bland](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/independent-autopsy-ordered-in-jail-cell-death-of-sandra-bland/)** > > Authorities say 28-year-old Sandra Bland hanged herself after being arrested for allegedly kicking an officer during a traffic stop; Family and friends question that account HEMPSTEAD, Texas - The family of a Chicago-area woman found dead in a Texas jail cell last week **ordered an independent autopsy, which was completed Sunday** , their lawyer told a radio station Monday. The results of that autopsy have not yet been released. Sunday was 4 days ago. Was their lawyer lying? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/497 "2015-07-23T16:43:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s even weirder is that on the [photos of the scene shown by NBC](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sandra-blands-death-will-be-investigated-murder-district-attorney-n395456), there’s a new liner in the trash bin… but Bland’s knicknacks are still on the table besides the bed. Anyone else not understand how a person could hang themselves on trash can like that? I’m not seeing the mechanics in my mind. How could the noose have been secured so that it would hold the weight of her body without sliding? And why would a metal trash can like that be in a jail cell? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/498 "2015-07-23T16:45:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So why hasn’t the family released the results of the independent autopsy which would therefore contain The Truth™? > > In order to assert that Bland’s death was anything other than a suicide, you have to postulate the existence of a massive conspiracy operating across county and state lines involving people with no logical reason to work together, and it’s really no more credible at this point than 9/11 Truthers or Moon landing denialists are. That’s not true. If this is the case, it would not have involved more than a few jail employees. As few as two perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/499 "2015-07-23T16:46:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Independent autopsy performed in Waller County, Texas jail cell death of Sandra Bland - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/independent-autopsy-ordered-in-jail-cell-death-of-sandra-bland/) > > HEMPSTEAD, Texas - The family of a Chicago-area woman found dead in a Texas jail cell last week **ordered an independent autopsy, which was completed Sunday** , their lawyer told a radio station Monday. > > The results of that autopsy have not yet been released. > > Sunday was 4 days ago. Was their lawyer lying? Completing the autopsy and getting the results back are two different things. **Czarcasm** merely said the results weren’t released yet, not that the autopsy was, or wasn’t, completed. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/500 "2015-07-23T16:48:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Completing the autopsy and getting the results back are two different things. … and yet in the interview the family member did report _some_ results back. As I said, if there were any indications during the independent autopsy that in any way contradicted the suicide, they’d be trumpeting it all over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=26)