# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/581 "2015-07-23T19:50:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, but they were kind of there for a while, so you could see how they COULD get them. This lady was there for a couple of days (it was also a detention center, not a correction facility) so it’s hard to see how she could not only get weed but also smoke it in such a situation. According to a female relative of mine who’s spent some time in jail, it’s not unheard of for women to secret contraband within certain parts of their person (if you catch my drift) in order to get them into the facility. Not saying that that’s what happened here, but it’s certainly not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/582 "2015-07-23T19:53:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If the officer is arresting the person in the vehicle and they refuse to exit, the appropriate action would be to forcibly remove them. Presenting danger is not a requirement. Just because you CAN do a thing does mean you SHOULD do a thing. I mentioned up-thread that police are trained to defuse a situation where possible. Instead this officer jacked up a stop for not signaling a lane change to handcuffing the driver, throwing them on the ground and hitting their head on the ground and then throwing that person in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/583 "2015-07-23T19:54:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How many “marijuana induced” suicides have been documented? A little superficial Googling shows the expected spate of suicides where the family blames marijuana, and a curious blend of news articles saying heavy marijuana use correlates to increased suicidal ideation, and pro-hemp sites saying it treats it. Ms. Bland was suicidal already, if the various news articles are to be believed. Perhaps it took less to push her over the edge, or at least if she was high it affected her more strongly. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/584 "2015-07-23T19:59:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Just because you CAN do a thing does mean you SHOULD do a thing. Oh, I agree. But there was a factual claim made that I was responding to. That factual claim is false. It’s important to realize what the law actually allows if there is any hope to change it. Though, I think if there is a legit arrest being made and the person refuses to exit, force is necessary and appropriate. I personally don’t think police should be able to order you and all the passengers out of your vehicle for no reason. But that’s the law of the land in the vast majority of states. There is no virtue in denying the facts. Only after everyone is aware of the law will it be possible to effect change. As a primer, facts matter. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/585 "2015-07-23T20:04:18Z")
She had just gotten a new job, one that she had just moved hundreds of miles for.All of her recent Facebook postings show someone who was stoked and totally excited about life. She may have been anxious and depressed, which in mild doses is to be expected when someone is experience major life changes. But that does not translate into “suicidal.” ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/586 "2015-07-23T20:05:24Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Cite? I’ve already seen cites that show that it IS lawful for a police officer to demand a person leave their vehicle in a traffic stop situation, so cite that it’s ‘not lawful’ if it’s a department policy. That seems a contradiction. Basically, a department can set forth policy that, if you violate it you can be disciplined or even fired for violating it, but it’s not unlawful and you can’t be prosecuted…while if you break the law (not policy) you COULD be prosecuted. That’s my understanding, but feel free to cite the law here and demonstrate that it was against the law and that being against department policy is also against the law. [From AP:](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WOMAN_DEAD_IN_JAIL_VIDEO?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) > [@](#): > > The director of the Department of Public Safety, Steve McCraw, has said Encinia violated internal policies of professionalism and courtesy, but he has not said the trooper acted outside the bounds of the law. Encinia has been placed on administrative leave for violating unspecified police procedures and DPS policy. It occurs to me that this McCraw person isn’t allowed to say if a law was broken, privacy laws as they are. So it looks like we’re both guessing at this point. Police policies are not optional, they are requirements. Here, at least, they have to carry the legal weight of a higher authority. Any ordinance, rule, protocol, regulation has to have a chain of authority back to state law. My position is that once the officer transgressed the protocol (which a law requires to be in effect), then his actions afterwards need to be viewed as behavior outside the duties of an officer. He snapped, and he needs to be responsible for his behaviors while he was bozo. “Get out of the car” is a required action whether the command was lawful or not. She had the right to run her mouth while she was getting out of the car, but she does have to obey. I make no excuses for her behavior after the police order was given. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/587 "2015-07-23T20:08:24Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > [From AP:](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WOMAN_DEAD_IN_JAIL_VIDEO?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) > > It occurs to me that this McCraw person isn’t allowed to say if a law was broken, privacy laws as they are. So it looks like we’re both guessing at this point. No. You are the only one guessing, by claiming that putting someone on administrative leave is proof that they have broken a law. **XT** and I are saying it’s too early to tell. We’re not “guessing” anything. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/588 "2015-07-23T20:11:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > She had just gotten a new job, one that she had just moved hundreds of miles for.All of her recent Facebook postings show someone who was stoked and totally excited about life. > > She may have been anxious and depressed, which in mild doses is to be expected when someone is experience major life changes. But that does not translate into “suicidal.” Yes, and Michael Brown was a smart clean-living young man who was about to go to college. The outward image one projects does not always necessarily conform to what one _is_, especially when one is placed out of their element. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/589 "2015-07-23T20:12:43Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Though, I think if there is a legit arrest being made and the person refuses to exit, force is necessary and appropriate. The arrest in this case was predicated on a failure to signal a lane change. In your view that merits forcibly dragging the driver out of the car? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/590 "2015-07-23T20:14:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The arrest in this case was predicated on a failure to signal a lane change. > > In your view that merits forcibly dragging the driver out of the car? Refusing to exit when lawfully ordered merits escalation of force. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/591 "2015-07-23T20:19:55Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Refusing to exit when lawfully ordered merits escalation of force. And herein lies the roundabout dance. Let me be clear: - Yes, the officer TECHNICALLY followed the law. He is therefore free from any repercussions. - The law allowed this officer to kill someone without repercussions. Are you ok with that? To be clear, for the sake of discussion, I will stipulate this officer did not break the law. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/592 "2015-07-23T20:29:26Z")
He didn’t kill her. Unless evidence is offered otherwise, I am conditionally satisfied she killed herself. Does he bear some responsibility for that outcome? Of course, but he could not have reasonably expected such an outcome. Being an uptight, bullying, authoritarian asshole is disgusting. Doesn’t make him a murderer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/593 "2015-07-23T20:32:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He didn’t kill her. Unless evidence is offered otherwise, I am conditionally satisfied she killed herself. Does he bear some responsibility for that outcome? Of course, but he could not have reasonably expected such an outcome. > > Being an uptight, bullying, authoritarian asshole is disgusting. Doesn’t make him a murderer. You only say that because you’re a reactionary right-winger! Why don’t you go join a Ted Cruz rally!! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/594 "2015-07-23T20:32:45Z")
In the press conference just now, they released all kinds of findings from the autopsy. Everything pointing to suicide, nothing that would indicate otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/595 "2015-07-23T20:33:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And herein lies the roundabout dance. > > Let me be clear: > > - Yes, the officer TECHNICALLY followed the law. He is therefore free from any repercussions. > > - The law allowed this officer to kill someone without repercussions. > > Are you ok with that? > > To be clear, for the sake of discussion, I will stipulate this officer did not break the law. What’s the roundabout? I don’t think the officer should have ordered this person out of her car. I think it cases where an officer does order someone out of their car based on a lawful order in a prudent manner, and that person refuses, then escalation is prudent, legal, and appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/596 "2015-07-23T20:37:37Z")
[The latest from the county prosecutor;](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/d-a-some-injuries-found-on-sandra-bland-consistent-with-suicide/) > [@](#): > > Diepraam says the autopsy showed that Bland had no defensive injuries on her hands that would typically indicate a struggle. He says some lacerations or abrasions were found on her wrists, injuries consistent with a struggle while being handcuffed. > > During a Thursday afternoon press conference, Diepraam also confirmed that marijuana was found in Bland’s system, which could possibly have affected her behavior between the time of her arrest and her death, but the results of further testing is expected on Friday. > > Waller County District Attorney Elton Mathis told CBS News earlier that reports he ordered a new autopsy are not true. However, he’s asked that Bland’s body be preserved after a toxicology report revealed a substantial amount of marijuana in her system at the time of her death. > > He also says marks around Bland’s neck are consistent. He says that in violent homicide, investigators wouldn’t see a consistent mark. > > He says the injuries that were found would be consistent with a suicide. With the rate at which the various accusations of conspiracies are being made and debunked, we’re going to need a nickname for those who’ll grasp at any straw to assert that this unfortunate incident MUST have been a well-orchestrated murder. “Blandies”, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/597 "2015-07-23T20:38:10Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Cite? I’ve already seen cites that show that it IS lawful for a police officer to demand a person leave their vehicle in a traffic stop situation, so cite that it’s ‘not lawful’ if it’s a department policy. That seems a contradiction. Basically, a department can set forth policy that, if you violate it you can be disciplined or even fired for violating it, but it’s not unlawful and you can’t be prosecuted…while if you break the law (not policy) you COULD be prosecuted. That’s my understanding, but feel free to cite the law here and demonstrate that it was against the law and that being against department policy is also against the law. This recently came up in the Eric Garner case. The type of chokehold the cops put on Garner was against department policy but was not against the law. This distinction was crucial in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/598 "2015-07-23T20:55:59Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, but they were kind of there for a while, so you could see how they COULD get them. This lady was there for a couple of days (it was also a detention center, not a correction facility) so it’s hard to see how she could not only get weed but also smoke it in such a situation. Not impossible, I suppose, but my own BS detector is definitely doing more than twitching. [Sandra Bland Autopsy Shows No 'Evidence Suggesting That This Is A Homicide' | HuffPost Voices](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-autopsy-shows-no-evidence-suggesting-that-this-is-a-homicide_55b142b6e4b07af29d57ed65)? He also addressed reports of a large quantity of marijuana found in her system. It’s impossible at this point to determine how much she ingested and when, but an upcoming quantitative test might shed light on those questions, he said. It was possible that she ingested marijuana before her traffic stop, Diepraam said. Investigators have searched her cell and interviewed neighboring inmates and so far haven’t found evidence that she smoked pot in the jail. Guess we will wait for “quantitative test”. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/599 "2015-07-23T21:01:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [The latest from the county prosecutor;](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/d-a-some-injuries-found-on-sandra-bland-consistent-with-suicide/) > > With the rate at which the various accusations of conspiracies are being made and debunked, we’re going to need a nickname for those who’ll grasp at any straw to assert that this unfortunate incident MUST have been a well-orchestrated murder. > > “Blandies”, maybe? You keep inferring that people are saying it was an intentional murder. What about a situation where the situation just got out of hand before there was any intent, as in the Ron Settles case? There’s a lot of gray between the lines here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/600 "2015-07-23T21:05:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Dude, do you not see the ridiculous argument that you just implied you want to use? > > How can the reason he wanted to arrest be that she resisted arrest? What was he going to arrest her for in the first place? A cop can’t just say that since you aren’t arrested yet, you’ve clearly been resisting arrest and thus arrest you. > > Or do you think a cop can do that? Permissible grounds for the arrest can be the traffic violation. Atwater v. Lago Vista, previously cited in this very thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=31)