# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/641 "2015-07-24T01:44:59Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > If you think that’s normal acceptable behavior for a cop then I think you must be watching too many tv shows and movies. The lip on a person is not reason to grab them. Can a cop break down your door if there’s loud music and he can smell weed? There was no common sense to his actions. But hers I can see quite easily. She was being bullied by a cop, maybe feeling threatened over a new job starting, and she became a bitch. But everything she said verbally he responded to by physical force on her body. You think that’s an equal playing field? That’s the thing. She was totally out of line from a civility perspective. But well within her rights, and not a threat to the cop. Irritated and mouthy are not crimes, as much as that might irk the cops. She probably had a legal duty to comply with the order to get out of the car, but he was morally and ethically wrong to take it to that level. Those arguing she was in the wrong have pragmatism on their side, but you do have the right to give a cop a piece of your mind. Maybe cops should know that. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/642 "2015-07-24T01:48:03Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Those arguing she was in the wrong have pragmatism on their side, but you do have the right to give a cop a piece of your mind. If that’s all she did, she would have gotten a ticket, but she wouldn’t have gotten arrested. Her problem was that in addition to “giving the cop a piece of her mind” she also refused a lawful order, then resisted arrest, then kicked the cop, finally getting arrested for “assault on a public servant”. Quite a bit more than “giving the cop a piece of her mind”, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/643 "2015-07-24T01:51:18Z")
It looked to me like Clash of the Egos. Both of them acted poorly. But… I’m with those who say we should expect more from the police. He should have written her a ticket and let if go at that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/644 "2015-07-24T02:57:38Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Hasn’t Atwater been limited by Gant? > > [Arizona v. Gant - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_v._Gant) > > Doesn’t Gant require “law enforcement officers to demonstrate an actual and continuing threat to their safety posed by an arrestee, or a need to preserve evidence related to the crime of arrest from tampering by the arrestee” none of which seems to be met in this case? > > or have I misunderstood it? > > BTW, not meant as a gotcha, but a genuine question since your a lawyer, I’m not, and you’ve always struck me as scrupulously fair when it comes to legal questions. You’ve misunderstood Gant, I think. Gant deals with the permissibility of a vehicle search incident to an arrest. It doesn’t limit the arrest itself, only the state’s ability to search a car at the time of the arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/645 "2015-07-24T03:07:03Z")
> [@camille](#): > > I missed your earlier post about this case. What a horrible decision. So do we really live in a police state now - or am I reading it incorrectly? Do you live in Texas? 🙂 Atwater rests in part on the Texas law permitting warrantless arrests for minor traffic offenses. I don’t think this is a country-wide situation. The decision basically says that the Texas law does not offend the federal constitution. I don’t know that it creates a police state, but it certainly vests in the police officer on the street a lot of discretion, more than the huge quanta of discretion police typically have. For this reason, most police departments have policies that forbid such arrests, even though they are not otherwise illegal. So a citizen arrested under such circumstances will be able to raise hell (figuratively speaking) by means of complaint to the department for violation of those policies. It’s just never a good idea to try to assert such defenses at roadside. But the office behaved horribly. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/646 "2015-07-24T03:10:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If that’s all she did, she would have gotten a ticket, but she wouldn’t have gotten arrested. Her problem was that in addition to “giving the cop a piece of her mind” she also refused a lawful order, then resisted arrest, then kicked the cop, finally getting arrested for “assault on a public servant”. > > Quite a bit more than “giving the cop a piece of her mind”, wouldn’t you say? You’re ignoring the fact that the lawful order stemmed directly from her giving the piece of her mind. She did nothing to warrant it. I’m giving the benefit of the doubt that he had the authority to order her out of the car, based in part on what I have read in this thread. I don’t claim to be an expert on these matters. But if you won’t acknowledge that the cop escalated specifically in response to the attitude and bitching, then I am afraid you and I are in different realities. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/647 "2015-07-24T03:11:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If that’s all she did, she would have gotten a ticket, but she wouldn’t have gotten arrested. Her problem was that in addition to “giving the cop a piece of her mind” she also refused a lawful order, then resisted arrest, then kicked the cop, finally getting arrested for “assault on a public servant”. > > Quite a bit more than “giving the cop a piece of her mind”, wouldn’t you say? No HIS problem was he never gave a lawful order to extinguish her cigarette. He asked, she refused and was well within her right to do so. He then told her to get out of the car, she refused citing there was no arrest Only then did he give her the "lawful order"put his claws on her and pull his taser, while she was trying to sign the traffic warning he gave her. By the way it’s amazing how she is “resisting arrest” when he didn’t even know what to charge her with until after she was cuffed and in the cruiser. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/648 "2015-07-24T03:18:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Does anyone disagree that if Sandra had survived she could mount a defense against a resisting arrest charge? Yes, I disagree. Texas law does not recognize a defense against a resisting arrest charge based on the claimed illegality of the arrest. This was previously cited by me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/649 "2015-07-24T03:19:38Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > No HIS problem was he never gave a lawful order to extinguish her cigarette. He asked, she refused and was well within her right to do so. He then told her to get out of the car, she refused citing there was no arrest Only then did he give her the "lawful order"put his claws on her and pull his taser, while she was trying to sign the traffic warning he gave her. By the way it’s amazing how she is “resisting arrest” when he didn’t even know what to charge her with until after she was cuffed and in the cruiser. After she was told that she was under arrest, she continued to refuse to exit the car. That’s resisting arrest. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/650 "2015-07-24T03:20:46Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > But if you won’t acknowledge that the cop escalated specifically in response to the attitude and bitching, then I am afraid you and I are in different realities. Of course he did. And if she wanted to continue giving him that “piece of her mind” she should have obeyed the lawful order. After she repeatedly didn’t, that was not about her talking anymore. It was about her actions. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/651 "2015-07-24T03:28:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I disagree. Texas law does not recognize a defense against a resisting arrest charge based on the claimed illegality of the arrest. > > This was previously cited by me. Texas Law is going to get a lot of scrutiny given the circumstances of this incident which occurred on July 10. If Sandra lived maybe she’d be at the mercy of an archaic law, but in her death there is outrage and should the family autopsy be at odds with the official ME, quite likely since they are in “cover my ass” mode right now then there just might be enough people fed up to demand change. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/652 "2015-07-24T08:11:42Z")
How you get from not indicating to turn to dead in 3 days I do not understand. It escalated at the scene - several times, and it escalated over the weekend. At some point this situation became irrational and not managed. Fwiw, another lawyers view: > [@](#): > > This could have completely been avoided. Especially since the incident escalated after he ran her license and registration. The incident should have ended in a warning or citation. She said she was trying to sign the ticket and get on her way. He asked her why she was irritated and she told him. He shouldn’t have asked that question if he didn’t want an honest answer. And once he got the honest answer he should have let it go. Or, tried to de-escalate the situation. He escalated by asking her to put out her cigarette. It’s not illegal to smoke in your own car. And it’s not illegal to smoke during a police encounter. [http://fusion.net/story/171531/sandra-bland-arrest-video-questions-answered/](http://fusion.net/story/171531/sandra-bland-arrest-video-questions-answered/) ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/653 "2015-07-24T10:25:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > After she was told that she was under arrest, she continued to refuse to exit the car. > > That’s resisting arrest. Do you disagree? Absolutely. The cop just gave her a warning summons. He was not in danger. He had no probable cause to arrest in the first place. Her being belligerent is not against the law. However his abuse of his authority could be challenged in a court of law, he knew it and so did she. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/654 "2015-07-24T10:28:32Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Absolutely. The cop just gave her a warning summons. He was not in danger. He had no probable cause to arrest in the first place. Her being belligerent is not against the law. However his abuse of his authority could be challenged in a court of law, he knew it and so did she. As has been established multiple times in this thread, failing to signal a lane change _is_ grounds for arrest in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/655 "2015-07-24T10:36:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As has been established multiple times in this thread, failing to signal a lane change _is_ grounds for arrest in Texas. It’s discretionary. The idea is you serve the damn public. It is utterly stupid to waste a citizens time and the departments time to process an arrest for this offence - it’s what you do in some para-military hell hole. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/656 "2015-07-24T10:52:26Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s discretionary. The idea is you serve the damn public. > > It is utterly stupid to waste a citizens time and the departments time to process an arrest for this offence - it’s what you do in some para-military hell hole. Exactly right, Texas might be hell but last I heard it’s not a police state. But for those Texans scared out of their minds they should read up on this article that clearly delineates how the cop abused his authority and how Sandra was well within her rights > **[Texas Standard for July 5, 2017](https://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/)** > > Today’s Stories: > The US Has ‘No Good Options’ For Dealing With North Korea > Retired Teachers Face Huge Health Care Cost Increases > Abilene’s Foster Grandparent Program Is Growing > Gulf Of Mexico Will Likely Experience The Largest ‘Dead Zone’ On Record... ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/657 "2015-07-24T11:16:51Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Texas Law is going to get a lot of scrutiny given the circumstances of this incident which occurred on July 10. If Sandra lived maybe she’d be at the mercy of an archaic law, but in her death there is outrage and should the family autopsy be at odds with the official ME, quite likely since they are in “cover my ass” mode right now then there just might be enough people fed up to demand change. I hope you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/658 "2015-07-24T11:21:46Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Exactly right, Texas might be hell but last I heard it’s not a police state. But for those Texans scared out of their minds they should read up on this article that clearly delineates how the cop abused his authority and how Sandra was well within her rights > > [Texas Standard for July 5, 2017 | Texas Standard](http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/) It not only says she was within her rights, but the cop did indeed violate laws, such as not giving her a reason for arresting her, especially when she asks him explicitly, he gave her no response other than call on for back up. She had no idea what was going on, and he got physical with her. Also, they’re saying pointing the taser in her face and telling her “he’ll light her up” is a threat for unessesary violence. So he actually may be on the line for some unlawful shit he pulled. Interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/659 "2015-07-24T11:25:47Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Exactly right, Texas might be hell but last I heard it’s not a police state. But for those Texans scared out of their minds they should read up on this article that clearly delineates how the cop abused his authority and how Sandra was well within her rights > > [Texas Standard for July 5, 2017 | Texas Standard](http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/) Unfortunately, Mr. Harrington fails to identify any citation to statute or case law, and when he says things like “has to,” he does not make it clear whether he us asserting Texas law or police department policy. For example, by police courtesy policy, the trooper should explain why she is under arrest, and the trooper violated that policy. But there’s no legal requirement that he do so, and his failure to do so does not vitiate the arrest. These points were made earlier in the thread, when Mr. Harrington was first quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/660 "2015-07-24T11:26:59Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > It not only says she was within her rights, but the cop did indeed violate laws, such as not giving her a reason for arresting her, especially when she asks him explicitly, he gave her no response other than call on for back up. She had no idea what was going on, and he got physical with her. > > Also, they’re saying pointing the taser in her face and telling her “he’ll light her up” is a threat for unessesary violence. > > So he actually may be on the line for some unlawful shit he pulled. Interesting read. You seem to be reading some posts in this thread, but not all of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=34)