# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/901 "2015-07-25T18:35:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I watch almost zero FoxNews. Maybe Chris Wallace’s show on Sunday mornings once in awhile, but not often enough that I remember any discussions about race. Since you’re so doe-eyed, I’ll tell you how it is. There are no civil rights leaders living today who get the MLK treatment. None. If a person dares to talk about modern racism, they automatically get branded a “race baiter”. Doesn’t matter if they talking about it calmly and reasonably, like the president has. They are just another Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/902 "2015-07-25T18:57:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Since you’re so doe-eyed, I’ll tell you how it is. I’m sorry, but don’t watch FoxNews = “doe eyed”? I don’ think so. You’re not doing your argument justice by making silly claims like that. > [@](#): > > There are no civil rights leaders living today who get the MLK treatment. None. If a person dares to talk about modern racism, they automatically get branded a “race baiter”. Doesn’t matter if they talking about it calmly and reasonably, like the president has. They are just another Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson. Perhaps you’ve set the bar too high. Are there any Civil Rights leaders today who actually can be compared to MLK? Maybe there just aren’t any. But, if you think they are, then the first thing you need to do to support your argument is to identify specific individuals who can reasonably be compared to MLK, and then we can judge how they are treated. You could very well be right, but all you’ve done so far is make assertions, none of which are backed up by anything other than your say-so. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/903 "2015-07-25T19:04:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sorry, but don’t watch FoxNews = “doe eyed”? I don’ think so. You’re not doing your argument justice by making silly claims like that. “Doe eyed” is the nicest descriptor I can come up with. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/904 "2015-07-25T19:13:00Z")
How about ‘rational’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/905 "2015-07-25T19:20:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “Doe eyed” is the nicest descriptor I can come up with. Definitely time to agree to disagree. You’re usually a very erudite poster, but I’m finding you argument on this matter to be overly heavy on passion and light to empty on substance. You could very well be correct, but I’m not finding it fruitful to carry on a discussion with someone who seems to assume that anyone who disagrees with them does so because they are not worldly enough. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/906 "2015-07-25T19:23:16Z")
Michelle Alexander, while not single-handedly responsible for the rise of mass incarceration as a serious civil rights issue deserving of response by presidential candidates, is among the most responsible for it. Agree with her or not, she is a smart and accomplished academic who is also an active civil rights leader. O’Reilly has had only negative things to say about her over the years. Bryan Stevenson is one of the brightest lights in the civil rights movement. He’s a MacArthur Genius, has access to the President, is both a public figure and behind the scenes in a lot of particular local struggles, and currently has a NYT best-selling book on civil rights in the death penalty context. He is principally responsible for the abolition of juvenile life without parole sentences, among other victories. I can’t say I’ve ever seen him mentioned on Fox News. I’ve certainly never heard any Fox News type say something positive about him. I don’t know how Fox News as a whole has treated the founders of the #blacklivesmatter movement–Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi. One Fox News commenter said of the movement: “Grouping only what serves their narrative, the protesters with a gleaming new chant, once again fail to recognize the limitations of their cause – that far more black lives are lost at the hands of other blacks than are lost in the narrow battle they protest so loudly against.” I’d say **monstro’s** characterization is pretty accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/907 "2015-07-25T20:09:27Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I say it WAS unconstitutional it violated the 4th amendment right of protection against unlawful search and seizure. And what of Mimms and its progeny? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/908 "2015-07-25T20:10:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And what of Mimms and its progeny? I think he’s making the assertion that it violated Rodriguez. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/909 "2015-07-25T22:11:12Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There are no civil rights leaders living today who get the MLK treatment. You mean getting repeatedly thrown into jail, then shot ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/910 "2015-07-25T22:12:32Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Since you’re so doe-eyed, I’ll tell you how it is. There are no civil rights leaders living today who get the MLK treatment. None. If a person dares to talk about modern racism, they automatically get branded a “race baiter”. Doesn’t matter if they talking about it calmly and reasonably, like the president has. They are just another Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson. Talking about it calmly and reasonably like you and your sister, you mean? Yeah, I can see why people would get annoyed by that “reasonable” discourse… ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/911 "2015-07-25T22:33:07Z")
[nitpick] Rosa Parks was 42 when she was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/912 "2015-07-25T23:21:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Talking about it calmly and reasonably like you and your sister, you mean? Yeah, I can see why people would get annoyed by that “reasonable” discourse… What exactly does Monstro’s “sister” have to do with this conversation? I don’t even remember her mentioning her sister. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/913 "2015-07-25T23:29:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that issue. Firstly, we don’t really know what kinds of things MLK would be doing if he were alive today. But if you think you do, and you know some folks who are doing those things, and you also know some folks calling them “race baiters”, that would add some substance to the discussion. Otherwise, we’re just debating an unsubstantiated hypothetical. > > ETA: The term “race baiter”, to me, brings to mind someone like Al Sharpton, but I don’t think (and would hope not) that MLK would be using tactics similar to AS. Of course Martin Luther King in his day was not viewed as this universally recognized hero but was feared and criticized by lots of people and considered a dangerous radical my mainstream Americans. There’s a reason Bobby Kennedy, who’s hardly a radical right-winger decided to authorize an FBI wiretap. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/914 "2015-07-25T23:35:30Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Can you think of any civil right leader living today who isn’t branded a “race baiter” by the talking heads on Fox News? Ted Olson and Alan Gotleib. Civil rights advocates for same sex emarriage and 2nd amendment rights. Not race baiters. Probably not the kind of civil rights you were thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/915 "2015-07-26T00:03:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re correct. But she didn’t stay put. She pushed at him, causing an injury, which would be sufficient “force.” And as the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals observed: > > > [@](#): > > > > We find the requirements of Sec. 38.03, that the accused prevent an officer from effecting an arrest by using force, can be established by the same facts necessary under Sec. 22.02(a)(2) to show the accused caused bodily injury to a peace officer in the lawful discharge of official duty. > > Quoting _Sutton v. State_, 548 SW 2d 697 at 699 (Tex Ct Crim App 1977) Well, there it is again, “the lawful discharge of official duty.” What’s in question here is whether it was “lawful discharge of official duty.” As soon as he prevented Bland from signing the warning, he was violating Rodriquez. That still doesn’t get Bland totally off the hook, and certainly doesn’t get her off the hook if she did indeed kick him. We don’t have any good evidence that she did, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if she had. I do see the need for preventing what the navy calls “sea lawers,” where a sailor thinks he or she can avoid a direct order because it’s against regs. My guess is, if it played out in court, it could go either way. But I’d expect there to be precedent; this has to have come up before, so however that went, would go this as well. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/916 "2015-07-26T02:14:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What exactly does Monstro’s “sister” have to do with this conversation? > > I don’t even remember her mentioning her sister. This is generally known, so I’m not trying to violate privacy, but the poster **you with the face** is **monstro** ’s sister. The relevance of **Steophan** using this reference in his reply is an exercise left to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/917 "2015-07-26T02:32:32Z")
> [@camille](#): > > This is generally known, so I’m not trying to violate privacy, but the poster **you with the face** is **monstro** ’s sister. > > The relevance of **Steophan** using this reference in his reply is an exercise left to the reader. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/918 "2015-07-26T03:08:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Of course Martin Luther King in his day was not viewed as this universally recognized hero but was feared and criticized by lots of people and considered a dangerous radical my mainstream Americans. > > There’s a reason Bobby Kennedy, who’s hardly a radical right-winger decided to authorize an FBI wiretap. We all know that. That is not the question. The question relates to a modern day MLK who would be relied as a “race baiter”. if you know of someone who fits the bill, let us know who that is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/919 "2015-07-26T04:18:09Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Well, there it is again, “the lawful discharge of official duty.” What’s in question here is whether it was “lawful discharge of official duty.” As soon as he prevented Bland from signing the warning, he was violating Rodriquez. > > That still doesn’t get Bland totally off the hook, and certainly doesn’t get her off the hook if she did indeed kick him. We don’t have any good evidence that she did, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if she had. > > I do see the need for preventing what the navy calls “sea lawers,” where a sailor thinks he or she can avoid a direct order because it’s against regs. My guess is, if it played out in court, it could go either way. But I’d expect there to be precedent; this has to have come up before, so however that went, would go this as well. Just so I understand your argument clearly, how specifically did he prevent her from signing it? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/920 "2015-07-26T04:39:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We all know that. That is not the question. The question relates to a modern day MLK who would be relied as a “race baiter”. if you know of someone who fits the bill, let us know who that is. If Obama is commonly called a "socialist’ and accused of being racist, accused of not being Christian or American, and is so completely “othered” by the loudest of voices then the climate is such that I can see a modern MLK as accused of “race-baiting” very easily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=47)