# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/921 "2015-07-26T05:50:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just so I understand your argument clearly, how specifically did he prevent her from signing it? If she snatched it from his hands and signed it, she would have the power of case law on her side.? The cop would gnash his teeth in vexation, and slink away, “Curses! Foiled again!”. Because then she would have the law on her side, and police cannot mess with you when you got the law on your side. That would be against the law, and they can’t do that. So she gets out really meek and submissive like, and then quick grabs the warning ticket and signs it and says “AHA! Behold, it is signed, you have no power here! Begone!”. Yeah, that’ll work. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/922 "2015-07-26T12:24:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, that’ll work. I hope, 'cause that be “resisting not being arrested”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/923 "2015-07-26T13:34:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If she snatched it from his hands and signed it, she would have the power of case law on her side.? The cop would gnash his teeth in vexation, and slink away, “Curses! Foiled again!”. > > Because then she would have the law on her side, and police cannot mess with you when you got the law on your side. That would be against the law, and they can’t do that. So she gets out really meek and submissive like, and then quick grabs the warning ticket and signs it and says “AHA! Behold, it is signed, you have no power here! Begone!”. > > Yeah, that’ll work. Just so I understand your argument, what specifically are you saying DID happen? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/924 "2015-07-26T13:38:32Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I hope, 'cause that be “resisting not being arrested”. Are you going to answer the question that was posed to you in post #751? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/925 "2015-07-26T14:03:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are you going to answer the question that was posed to you in post #751? IIRC, right before he asked her to put out her cigarette, he laid the warning papers on the hood of her car. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/926 "2015-07-26T14:29:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just so I understand your argument, what specifically are you saying DID happen? My, but you love you some specificity! You may not even be aware how often you issue challenges centered around “specific”. An unkind or ungenerous observer might gather the impression that you are looking for a nitpick, a small point that you can stand upon and demand respect for. Can Constitutionality sanctify injustice, can a citation of case law transform a pig’s ear to a silk purse? Are we expected to breathe a sigh of relief, saying “Yes, this is an appalling abuse of power by a sworn public servant, but thank Heavens… Its legal!” Yes, to be sure, Ms Bland’s behavior falls short, but here’s the thing: she never swore to be better than us, she did not take an oath to protect and serve, she was not entrusted with lethal force upon her assertion that she was worthy of such trust. She is not sworn to protect me from injustice at the hand of power any more than I am sworn to protect her, we are precisely equal in our common and collective commitment to justice. There are no such things as human rights, we made it all up, it is a gift we fashion from nothing and give to each other. They are not the gift of God, a force that may exist in the abstract, but the Ear does not listen and the Hand does not manifest. They are ours, and ours alone, we are the source and the shelter. God will not protect our rights if we don’t resist their debasement. Perhaps if you had been in the car with her as her trusted confidant and adviser, all of this wretchedness might have been avoided. Almost certainly so, I have little doubt you would have rushed to her aid. But as your experience as a public defender must have taught you, the people who most need a lawyer are those who cannot afford one. Remember how she told the officer that she was calling her lawyer? I’ve got a nickel to bet says she didn’t have one, she was bluffing, like a finger in a coat pocket claimed to be a gun. Having a lawyer means you have money, you have power. Had it been you she called, I haven’t the least doubt you would have been down to that police station in a heartbeat, and all of this would be nothing more than a trivial happenstance quickly set right, or as close to right as we were likely to get. She would be alive, because she would have been proven to be a significant person, someone not to be ignored. Alas. Forgive, if you can, our lack of legalistic sophistication, we are but the common clay. She is dead, he may lose his job, the law is satisfied, but we are not. Prove me wrong on some minor procedural point, and I gain a smidgeon of information. What you get out of it, I don’t hazard to guess. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/927 "2015-07-26T14:30:30Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > IIRC, right before he asked her to put out her cigarette, he laid the warning papers on the hood of her car. You have the wrong post. Here was **Bricker’s** question: > [@](#): > > So when, specifically, have our courts pursued criminal actions even when no written law was violated? When does that happen? I had asked pretty much the same question of **watchwolf** in an earlier post, and he has not responded to either of them. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/928 "2015-07-26T14:44:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your posts have oodles of your opinion and no citation to authority. If I had a citation for my opinion, then it would be someone else’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/929 "2015-07-26T15:40:56Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > If I had a citation for my opinion, then it would be someone else’s opinion. Except that “courts have …pursued criminal actions in spite the written laws” is not an opinion. It’s a misstatement of fact, at best. Unless you can back it up with a citation. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/930 "2015-07-26T15:48:02Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I’d like to see someone with legal knowledge ( **Bricker** , perhaps) comment on the legality of what we all seem to commonly accept about police discretion having to do with deference: if you’re polite and deferential to an officer, you may be more likely to get off without a ticket/arrest, whereas if you’re not, he is more likely to arrest you. > > Someone upthread referred to this sort of behavior as “asking to be arrested”. > > Is such an arrest legal? That is, can a police officer use his discretionary powers to arrest you because of protected speech? > > I know that if my town has an ordinance against signs of a certain size, but they only enforce it against those signs that contain a message they don’t agree with, that’s a clear 1st Amendment violation, and any penalties are likely to be thrown out. > > So, let’s imagine I get pulled over, I’m polite and deferential, and in the middle of the officer saying “I’m going to let you off with a warning…”, I interrupt with “You ought to be ashamed of yourself, asshole.” (or something of that nature, as long as I don’t call him a [God-damned racketeer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplinsky_v._New_Hampshire)). > > Can he at that point arrest me legally? To any reasonable person, the reason he is arresting me has nothing to do with the original stop, which he has already used his discretion to not arrest me for. He is clearly arresting me because he doesn’t approve of my protected speech. > > Many people seem to suggest that the officer is simply violating policy when he arrests her because he apparently feels slighted by her tone. Why isn’t this actually a violation of the law? He was ready to let her go, then changed his mind based on protected speech. > [@climbuponahilltop](#): > > Getting arrested needs to be based on what you do, not how likeable a cop finds you, and not how good you make a cop feel about himself. Sandra Bland would not have been arrested if she’d played the game, sat up straight, put on her concerned citizen face, said yessir nosir, and fluttered her eyelashes a bit. It’s simple. But maybe it’s not that simple. Let’s face it: she was in a bad enough mental state to kill herself on Monday, which indicates she may have been in a bad enough mental state to not be able to play the game on Friday. Not a threat to society by any means, just not able to play the game. > > And it’s outrageous that our freedom depends not on following the law but on our ability to swallow one’s pride, ignore the injustice of being tailgated into making a technically illegal traffic move, and flutter one’s eyelashes. It seems to be common knowledge that if you hurt a cop’s feelings he will use his office and authority to wreak his revenge. As noted above, it’s a oft-repeated truism. What I don’t get is why we tolerate it and accept and in some cases even condone this sort of petty, unprofessional behavior. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/931 "2015-07-26T16:28:46Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > It seems to be common knowledge that if you hurt a cop’s feelings he will use his office and authority to wreak his revenge. > As noted above, it’s a oft-repeated truism. > > What I don’t get is why we tolerate it and accept and in some cases even condone this sort of petty, unprofessional behavior. I don’t support the petty, unprofessional behavior. However, removing discretion from when a cop is/isn’t going to arrest someone for an offense doesn’t seem to be a good solution. Much like mandatory minimum sentencing, it would make the justice system less flexible and able to deal with the problems it’s faced with. I think that the laws regarding when you can be arrested in Texas shouldn’t include minor traffic violations, that’s easy. They should still be able to issue warnings instead of tickets, and issue a summons instead of arresting people. As long as they have the power of issuing a lesser charge or not arresting someone, the possibility exists for them to decide that they don’t like you, and they’re going to throw the book at you. The converse is also true. Realistically, if you’re not pleasant to folks, you can anticipate life being more difficult for you. Punish officers that are abusing their authority. There’s actually a legal charge known as [offical oppression](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.39.htm) for the most horrible abuses. I think you’d have to be stretching the definitions in that statute for them to apply here, though. Who watches the watchmen? In this case you collectively do. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/932 "2015-07-26T16:34:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just so I understand your argument clearly, how specifically did he prevent her from signing it? By never presenting it to her for her signature. Watch the video. She never gets a chance to sign. He never even says he’s issuing a warning versus a ticket. Watch this video starting at 8:40 If I'm wrong, show me the point where she's given an opportunity to sign. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/933 "2015-07-26T17:03:09Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > I think that the laws regarding when you can be arrested in Texas shouldn’t include minor traffic violations, that’s easy. Maybe, but how is that relevant to the Sandra Bland incident? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/934 "2015-07-26T17:41:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Maybe, but how is that relevant to the Sandra Bland incident? Oh of course. She was arrested for resisting arrest. Don’t think about it too hard folks. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/935 "2015-07-26T17:47:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh of course. She was arrested for resisting arrest. No, she wasn’t. I linked, twice, to the relevant document that shows what she was arrested for. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/936 "2015-07-26T17:53:52Z")
A simple question. I’ve seen a few comments here and there somewhere that she RAN a stop sign. Do we know if that is definitely true or not true or something in between? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/937 "2015-07-26T18:02:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A simple question. > > I’ve seen a few comments here and there somewhere that she RAN a stop sign. Do we know if that is definitely true or not true or something in between? The dash cam video shows it pretty definitively. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/938 "2015-07-26T18:05:04Z")
> [@](#): > > …to the relevant document that shows what she was arrested for. Well, if its on an official and legal type document, it simply must be true! Like when the officer was reporting to his superior on the events, a report which casts strong doubt on the veracity of the video recording. We definitely need an investigation to determine how it was that the video recording was a lie. Any thoughts on that, **Terr**? Oh, and my question about your post #799, any further information on that? Been busy, have you, lad? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/939 "2015-07-26T18:06:46Z")
Thanks. I was too lazy to figure out which, if any, video showed it. Sounds to me like he was doing her a favor. And her getting pissy after running a red stop sign didn’t go down well. I know if I’m doing someone a favor and they get pissy with me, I’m not going to like it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/940 "2015-07-26T18:08:23Z")
Has anyone given you a gun and a badge, after you swear to protect and serve? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=48)