# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1001 "2015-07-26T21:42:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because of course [policemen are never](http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-medina/brunswick-police-cruiser-struck-during-traffic-stop) [struck](http://7online.com/news/police-2-officers-struck-by-car-during-traffic-stop-on-staten-island/790016/) [by passing](https://timesleader.com/archive/211396/stories-officer-struck-during-traffic-stop110029) [vehicles](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/state-trooper-struck-during-traffic-stop-on-i-66-in-arlington/2015/02/24/eb89320a-bc60-11e4-8668-4e7ba8439ca6_story.html) [while performing](http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Irving-Police-Motorcycle-Hit-By-Car-During-Traffic-Stop-309350021.html) [a traffic](http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/292802-state-trooper-side-swiped-routine-traffic-stop-finds-first-small-mercy/) [stop](http://www.myfoxla.com/story/27059806/ventura-deputy-struck-and-killed-during-traffic-stop). While avoiding traffic is a valid safety concern, I think the reason Mimms reason for drivers exiting is because they have less access to weapons and less of the bodies is shielded from view. This increased intrusion is de minimis with respect to the stip itself and the increased safety benefits are considered reasonable in that context. Not saying that’s what the officer was doing. Avoiding traffic can be accomplished by approaching from the passenger side. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1002 "2015-07-26T21:46:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … and by the same token the whole thing would’ve just stopped and everybody would’ve happily been on their way if Sandra Bland stepped out of the car when ordered to do so. No! Stop saying this fascistic bullshit. The cop might be happy, although it would mean he didn’t get what he wanted, an excuse to arrest her. She would be unhappy because her rights would have been trampled upon. And because the idea of getting a police officer convicted for petty misconduct is a joke, he would never get in trouble for it, and would do it again, making more people less happy by depriving them of their rights. The thing that makes me so upset is that, no matter how wrong something is, we can always count on people to defend it. Ultimately, it’s not the cops that are the problem. They only do what the populace will let them get away with doing. Sandra Blend, like many other people before her, are heroes for getting more and more people to stop allowing these cops to abuse the law. It took a lot of deaths, but we’ve gotten the momentum to have cops constantly filming their actions. If going to the courts worked, we wouldn’t have to be doing this. I may be a moral coward, but I’m tired of those like **XT** who try to turn that into a virtue. I’d love to see him argue that soldiers who go AWOL because of a dangerous assignment are the real heroes. Those who run away and let the bad guys get away are also the bad guys. You are the reason the world is as fucked up as it is. Evil is powerful because good people do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1003 "2015-07-26T21:50:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > What do you mean by saying “conjecture” The “carefully took his victim out of range” is conjecture. I showed you another, quite plausible, reason that he would take her there. > [@](#): > > I find this claim to be particularly bizarre. Ignoring the “ALL police business” straw man: what could possibly be the point of having dashboard cameras, if it’s considered normal/acceptable for officers to _make sure they’re not being filmed_ by them (by taking citizens out of range)? Again, it is normal/acceptable for officers to conduct police business without particular regard on whether they are in camera range or not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1004 "2015-07-26T21:52:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No! Stop saying this fascistic bullshit. The cop might be happy, although it would mean he didn’t get what he wanted, an excuse to arrest her. She would be unhappy because her rights would have been trampled upon. What “right” is trampled upon when she is ordered to step out of the car? US Supreme Court says that it’s constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1005 "2015-07-26T21:57:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You are the reason the world is as fucked up as it is. Evil is powerful because good people do nothing. You were OK up until this point, BigT. No amount of outrage is justification for insulting another poster like that. ---
**Author:** ![climbuponahilltop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@climbuponahilltop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/climbuponahilltop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1006 "2015-07-26T22:13:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The video is entirely reliable when it comes to certain facts, but not others. > > As for the stop sign, i looked it up, and the octagonal shape is only used for stop signs in Texas, so despite the utterly asinine fact of its placement so a stopped car would likely block a cross walk, a stop sign is what it is. Does anyone have an address for the incident? I’d like to look at this intersection on Google street view, because I cannot imagine a cop seeing someone blow through a stop sign, pulling the driver over, and then just never mentioning the stop sign again, not even after being assaulted. Maybe he is just not a very observant cop? Or he has an extremely short memory? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1007 "2015-07-26T22:23:48Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > From the Retired lawyer This is at least the second time you’ve said this. Why do you think that a “Retired lawyer” (who may be nothing of the sort) is some sort of expert? After all, I am the Dowager queen of Rumania. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1008 "2015-07-26T22:25:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The “carefully took his victim out of range” is conjecture. I showed you another, quite plausible, reason that he would take her there. That’s incorrect. You provided no plausible reason. > [@Terr](#): > > Again, it is normal/acceptable for officers to conduct police business without particular regard on whether they are in camera range or not. Here is that odd claim of yours, again. _Why_ is it, do you believe, that ‘cameras in policing’ have been called for, and instituted? Are you aware of the many incidents that have brought about the call for cameras in policing? If so, why would you see it as normal and/or acceptable for “_officers to conduct police business without particular regard on_ [sic] _whether they are in camera range or not_”… ? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1009 "2015-07-26T22:28:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Maybe, but how is that relevant to the Sandra Bland incident? Well, in this particular incident, he technically had cause to arrest her for the original violation under the law (though it would violate any sane department policy). And if we imagine a world where she had been non-combative throughout the stop, she would have been non-combative up to the point of being put in cuffs to be in compliance with the law. In Texas, they can put you in cuffs while they decide what to do with you, even for most moving violations. That makes for a pretty strange standard. Now, the place where this particular stop went south was when the officer opened the door, tried to drag her out of the car, and threatened her with the taser. He could have calmly addressed that for a long time before going ballistic. It’s not uncommon that the police can order you out of the car during a stop (e.g., it seems to be legal in Florida, it’s also pretty common on Cops), but I don’t know if it’s universal. Asking leading questions is SOP for all 50 states, in my experience. It’s dumb, it’s often insulting, but I doubt it can be found unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1010 "2015-07-26T22:29:16Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > This is at least the second time you’ve said this. Why do you think that a “Retired lawyer” (who may be nothing of the sort) is some sort of expert? > After all, I am the Dowager queen of Rumania. [sidetrack] You just _know_ that Dottie Parker would have refused to put out her cigarette and would have mouthed off to the bully, too. Bless her mordant little heart.[/end sidetrack] … By the way, having now read the first 300 or so posts, I see that poster **drad\_dog** had also mentioned the issue of the officer taking Bland out of camera range before getting physical with her. When I started posting, in the 900s, I hadn’t yet read that far (and wasn’t sure if the issue had yet been raised). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1011 "2015-07-26T22:36:25Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, in this particular incident, he technically had cause to arrest her for the original violation under the law (though it would violate any sane department policy). > > And if we imagine a world where she had been non-combative throughout the stop, she would have been non-combative up to the point of being put in cuffs to be in compliance with the law. In Texas, they can put you in cuffs while they decide what to do with you, even for most moving violations. That makes for a pretty strange standard. True, but that’s a hypothetical situation. Since he had the warning (or maybe a ticket) in his hand already, it’s a hypothetical situation that is not plausible in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1012 "2015-07-26T22:38:46Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Here is that odd claim of yours, again. > > _Why_ is it, do you believe, that ‘cameras in policing’ have been called for, and instituted? They have been called for, yes. But no one (at least no one rational) that I have seen yet suggested that there should be a regulation that prohibits policemen to conduct police business anywhere but within the range of a static camera. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1013 "2015-07-26T22:41:06Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > In Texas, they can put you in cuffs while they decide what to do with you, even for most moving violations. That makes for a pretty strange standard. AFAIU (I am not a policeman) it’s not just Texas but pretty much anywhere that the police can “put you in cuffs while they decide what to do with you” (if they have any reason to detain you - note the “detain”, not “arrest”). The cuffs would be for the safety of the officer, at his discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1014 "2015-07-26T22:58:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They have been called for, yes. But no one (at least no one rational) that I have seen yet suggested that there should be a regulation that prohibits policemen to **conduct police business anywhere but within the range of a static camera**. That’s a straw man, of course. This is about existing cameras on vehicles, not about the conduct of all police business. If a law-enforcement department has vehicles equipped with dashboard cameras, then either they will have a policy that says _'do not drag citizens out of camera range before you get physical with them_’ OR members of the community will be asking why there is no such policy. It makes _no_ sense that the cameras would be installed and then everyone–the press, the legal profession, and the public–would say (in effect) ‘sure, drag people out of range of the cameras before you start in on them…no problem!’ I’m amazed that you continue to suggest that this dragging-out-of-range is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1015 "2015-07-26T23:11:17Z")
I’ve read (virtually) this entire thread. The more I read, the more I am floored how some people can’t let go of the ‘technical’ or ‘formal’ aspect, i.e. that Bland got what she had coming because she failed to follow the cop’s command(s); that no matter how it came about, she _was_ resisting arrest. They forget that, or choose to de-emphasize, that there’s another aspect to policing which the officer in question totally and absolutely neglected. For God sake’s (and as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread), the cop was the professional here. When safe and feasible, it’s his job to de-escalate and to defuse, and it’s incumbent upon him to try to take a ‘meta-view’ of things. This was not a situation where he needed to be hyperfocused in the here and now, vigilant and parrying each move of the ‘suspect’. Obviously not! If he was doing his job he would have calmed things down, primarily by calming himself down. I can express my feelings a lot better by comparing what the cop did (or didn’t) do to me in my role as a physician taking care of acutely ill patients (my practice is 100% acute care Internal Medicine). If a demented patient swears at me, I don’t swear back at him. I don’t storm out of the room. If he yells at me, I don’t raise my voice at him. Obviously not. I have been trained and have years of experience at recognizing the symptoms of dementia. Same for someone who’s delirious or just totally freaked-out or upset. I don’t take their vitriol personally. And I never add fuel to the fire by ramping things up, or responding in kind. God no! I apply my training and experience. I redirect. Or I simply sit quietly, maybe with a quizzical look on my face to signal, “hey, let’s calm down and get down to the business of helping you”. And at such times I make sure my body language is not just non-threatening but that it’s reassuring. In other words, _I apply my professional training and experience to settle things down_. In short, I defuse. It’s just as much a part of my job as is treating someone with a heart attack. The cop’s behaviour in this incident is analogous to me, as a doc, getting into a shouting match with the demented patient or with the frightened patient.When I see such behaviour in the medical trainees (which is, thankfully, very uncommon), I make a point of reminding them to take the ‘meta-view’; it’s nothing personal. The patient isn’t swearing at you. He’s swearing and he’s yelling because he’s sick and he’s frightened. Are police not taught the same? (Obviously, all this applies only in what are self-evidently safe situations for the police. And that was clearly the case here.) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1016 "2015-07-26T23:11:52Z")
Terr, Smapti, Steophan, et al., let me ask you this. Do you think the officer in the Bland arrest acted admirably? ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1017 "2015-07-26T23:14:21Z")
The officer’s statement that he is planning to “light up” Sandra Bland is deeply terrifying. Only a truly sick individual would defend that kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1018 "2015-07-26T23:16:59Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > You were OK up until this point, BigT. No amount of outrage is justification for insulting another poster like that. See, here you told me what I did wrong, rather than just saying I should know better, leaving me with no clue what the issue is. For the record, that statement was not referring back to **Terr**. But I know from experience that, if the mods take your post one way, they are unlikely to change the Warning later. I did not intend to call **Terr** evil. “You” was probably not the best word I could have used. In my anger, I didn’t proofread to make sure that no one could possibly see my statement as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1019 "2015-07-26T23:36:39Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > I can express my feelings a lot better by comparing what the cop did (or didn’t) do to me in my role as a physician taking care of acutely ill patients (my practice is 100% acute care Internal Medicine). > > If a demented patient swears at me, I don’t swear back at him. I don’t storm out of the room. If he yells at me, I don’t raise my voice at him. Obviously not. I have been trained and have years of experience at recognizing the symptoms of dementia. Same for someone who’s delirious or just totally freaked-out or upset. I don’t take their vitriol personally. And I never add fuel to the fire by ramping things up, or responding in kind. God no! I apply my training and experience. > > I redirect. Or I simply sit quietly, maybe with a quizzical look on my face to signal, “hey, let’s calm down and get down to the business of helping you”. And at such times I make sure my body language is not just non-threatening but that it’s reassuring. In other words, _I apply my professional training and experience to settle things down_. > > In short, I defuse. It’s just as much a part of my job as is treating someone with a heart attack. > > The cop’s behaviour in this incident is analogous to me, as a doc, getting into a shouting match with the demented patient or with the frightened patient.When I see such behaviour in the medical trainees (which is, thankfully, very uncommon), I make a point of reminding them to take the ‘meta-view’; it’s nothing personal. The patient isn’t swearing at you. He’s swearing and he’s yelling because he’s sick and he’s frightened. Are police not taught the same? Consider the amount of education and training needed for someone to practice medicine, compared to what is required to be a LEO. And yet they both have to deal with the general public, and make decisions in stressful, life or death situations. This is certainly one of the problems. ---
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1020 "2015-07-26T23:37:19Z")
Great post, KarlGauss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=52)