# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1021 "2015-07-26T23:38:48Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’m amazed that you continue to suggest that this dragging-out-of-range is acceptable. You say “dragging out of range”. I say “conducting police business without regard to the camera”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1022 "2015-07-26T23:39:49Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Terr, Smapti, Steophan, et al., let me ask you this. Do you think the officer in the Bland arrest acted admirably? No. What a silly question to ask. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1023 "2015-07-26T23:42:33Z")
I can see this as a common tactic for cops in that area to pull over anyone they wish, at whim, if they’re obeying traffic laws: 1. Wait for a driver you feel suspicious or biased toward. 2. Speed up to them and ride their ass on a one-lane road with your lights on. 3. if they pull over to the shoulder with a signal, pass them and turn out of view on another street: go back to step 1. 4. if they pull over to the shoulder failing to signal, pull in behind, and see what you can get out of it. 5. if their actions please you, let them off with a “warning.” 6. if their actions displease you, escalate it to the most severe violation you can railroad them into. 7. feel awesome for being a clever and productive officer. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1024 "2015-07-26T23:51:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You say “dragging out of range”. I say “conducting police business without regard to the camera”. I’m thinking there would be a protocol established since they started using cameras. It would probably depend on individual circumstances; obviously if a situation leads to action outside camera range that can’t be helped, the cop’s actions should be acceptable. But in this case, he _led_ her out of camera range for no discernible reason. At one point they came back in to camera range when she was already subdued, and he led her out _again_. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1025 "2015-07-26T23:52:06Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Consider the amount of education and training needed for someone to practice medicine, compared to what is required to be a LEO. And yet they both have to deal with the general public, and make decisions in stressful, life or death situations. > > This is certainly one of the problems. Well, yes and no. Most of docs’ training is still content based. And that accounts for the large majority of the time and effort spent in “education and training”. On the other hand, although not it’s not the type of thing you can master in a two-hour seminar, learning how to interact with distressed individuals basically comes down to recognizing that it’s not personal and then having a set of techniques you can use to defuse things. IOW, police officers should be expected to have _some_ proficiency in it. I admit, though, it does take a long time, and lots of practice and failed attempts, to feel (and hopefully be) competent in it. (Thanks **gracefulfatsheba**.) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1026 "2015-07-26T23:59:39Z")
Why did the cop even force Bland to the ground, smashing her head? Why didn’t he just bring her back to his cruiser and toss her in the back seat? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1027 "2015-07-27T00:02:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. What a silly question to ask. It’s not a silly question, as your defense definitely comes off that way, like you think the cop did nothing wrong and it’s all Bland’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1028 "2015-07-27T00:03:13Z")
> [@camille](#): > > But in this case, he _led_ her out of camera range for no discernible reason. I gave you the plausible reason - he was about to arrest her, and if it required (as it did) physical confrontation, it would be a lot harder on her if it was on asphalt. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1029 "2015-07-27T00:05:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. What a silly question to ask. It’s a good clarification to have on the table. Out of curiosity, what’s at stake for you in this issue? Why are you defending actions that weren’t admirable? I recognize of course that, in theory, there are valid defenses for many non-admirable actions. But it’s always interesting to know, in particular cases, what motivates that defense in that case. In every defense, the one doing the defending has something at stake. What is it that’s at stake here for you? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1030 "2015-07-27T00:08:10Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Why did the cop even force Bland to the ground, smashing her head? > > Why didn’t he just bring her back to his cruiser and toss her in the back seat? Because he was going to put handcuffs on her, and she physically resisted. AFAIU, in such circumstances, the person to be handcuffed is to be taken to the ground. See [http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2008/05/cuffing-with-useful-force.aspx](http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2008/05/cuffing-with-useful-force.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1031 "2015-07-27T00:08:18Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Why did the cop even force Bland to the ground, smashing her head? > > Why didn’t he just bring her back to his cruiser and toss her in the back seat? That’s what I want to know too. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1032 "2015-07-27T00:08:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I did not intend to call **Terr** evil. In fact, if anything, you called him a good person. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1033 "2015-07-27T00:10:56Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > It’s a good clarification to have on the table. > > Out of curiosity, what’s at stake for you in this issue? Why are you defending actions that weren’t admirable? Mostly as a reaction to anti-policeman witch hunt. Yes, she killed herself. That was not the policeman’s fault. > [@](#): > > What is it that’s at stake here for you? Nothing much. This is a discussion board. This is a topic that interests me. Incidentally (not that it matters that much) it happened not very far from where I live. No “stake”. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1034 "2015-07-27T00:11:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Well, yes and no. > > Most of docs’ training is still content based. And that accounts for the large majority of the time and effort spent in “education and training”. On the other hand, although not it’s not the type of thing you can master in a two-hour seminar, learning how to interact with distressed individuals basically comes down to recognizing that it’s not personal and then having a set of techniques you can use to defuse things. IOW, police officers should be expected to have _some_ proficiency in it. I admit, though, it does take a long time, and lots of practice and failed attempts, to feel (and hopefully be) competent in it. > > (Thanks **gracefulfatsheba**.) I agree with you about the content difference, but I think the amount of prior academic achievement, time, discipline, and critical thinking necessary to get through medical training is also a big factor. If someone is incapable of that, they are not likely to enter or complete training. How much previous education, skill, commitment, or personal fortitude is needed to complete police training? We’re talking about two completely different types of people, and yet we allow both tremendous influence over other people’s lives. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1035 "2015-07-27T00:14:12Z")
> [@camille](#): > > I agree with you about the content difference, but I think the amount of prior academic achievement, time, discipline, and critical thinking necessary to get through medical training is also a big factor. If someone is incapable of that, they are not likely to enter or complete training. How much previous education, skill, commitment, or personal fortitude is needed to complete police training? We’re talking about two completely different types of people, and yet we allow both tremendous influence over other people’s lives. Interestingly enough, there are roughly as many doctors in the US as there are policemen. If we’re willing for our taxes to go up two-three times so that policemen are paid as much as doctors, then we can demand their training is as thorough, as lengthy and as selective. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1036 "2015-07-27T00:17:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because he was going to put handcuffs on her, and she physically resisted. AFAIU, in such circumstances, the person to be handcuffed is to be taken to the ground. > > See [http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2008/05/cuffing-with-useful-force.aspx](http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2008/05/cuffing-with-useful-force.aspx) She already had handcuffs on her. He could have handcuffed her and tossed in the back of the patrol car. There was no need to continue manhandling her after that. There’s a point where he drags her, handcuffed, over to the back of her car. Why? Why not put her in the patrol car at that point? I don’t think she assaulted him. I think that’s another fabrication. But he was practically asking to be assaulted given the careless way he treated this supposed dangerous criminal. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1037 "2015-07-27T00:19:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Interestingly enough, there are roughly as many doctors in the US as there are policemen. If we’re willing for our taxes to go up two-three times so that policemen are paid as much as doctors, then we can demand their training is as thorough, as lengthy and as selective. We don’t pay public school teachers enough either. And yet we don’t seem to have a problem firing them if they abuse children–the people they are supposed to be serving. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1038 "2015-07-27T00:22:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because he was going to put handcuffs on her, and she physically resisted. AFAIU, in such circumstances, the person to be handcuffed is to be taken to the ground. > > See [http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2008/05/cuffing-with-useful-force.aspx](http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2008/05/cuffing-with-useful-force.aspx) She was fully cuffed _well_ before she was forced to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1039 "2015-07-27T00:24:10Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > We don’t pay public school teachers enough either. And yet we don’t seem to have a problem firing them if they abuse children–the people they are supposed to be serving. FWIW I think both that teachers and police officers should be paid much more than they are–in part exactly so that we can demand a better quality of police officer. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1040 "2015-07-27T00:25:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > She already had handcuffs on her. He could have handcuffed her and tossed in the back of the patrol car. There was no need to continue manhandling her after that. > > There’s a point where he drags her, handcuffed, over to the back of her car. Why? Why not put her in the patrol car at that point? > > I don’t think she assaulted him. I think that’s another fabrication. But he was practically asking to be assaulted given the careless way he treated this supposed dangerous criminal. Totally. Almost as if he was hoping to get assaulted, so he’d have evidence for an assault arrest claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=53)