# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1041 "2015-07-27T00:25:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Dude, it was your cite. If you don’t believe your own cites, you shouldn’t cite them. > > _On the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle using audible and visual signals that meet the requirements of Sections 547.305 and 547.702 [lights and sirens], or of a police vehicle lawfully using only an audible signal, an operator, unless otherwise directed by a police officer, shall_ > > Emphasis added. Dude please read what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1042 "2015-07-27T00:27:39Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Terr, Smapti, Steophan, et al., let me ask you this. Do you think the officer in the Bland arrest acted admirably? He acted lawfully. Whether his actions were permissible per department policy is for his superiors to determine. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1043 "2015-07-27T00:27:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Mostly as a reaction to anti-policeman witch hunt. Yes, she killed herself. That was not the policeman’s fault. Understood. But I’d say that the legality of his actions does not bear directly on his moral culpability for her suicide, and also does not bear directly on the question of whether a lot needs to be changed in how we police in order to prevent things like the escalation of a traffic stop to a situation where someone is committing suicide in police custody. It was exactly the character of his actions which was not admirable which applies some culpability for her death to him. And it is exactly the facts about police culture and policy which made his non-admirable actions so easy to carry out. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1044 "2015-07-27T00:28:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He acted lawfully. Whether his actions were permissible per department policy is for his superiors to determine. Right, but I’m asking you whether you think he acted admirably. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1045 "2015-07-27T00:29:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I gave you the plausible reason - he was about to arrest her, and if it required (as it did) physical confrontation, it would be a lot harder on her if it was on asphalt. It was only “required” when she was conveniently out of camera range. It was at that point that she began to complain (off camera) that he was hurting her. When he said, “Stop moving!”, she replied, “You’re the one who keeps moving me!”. And we saw that when he walked her out of range the second time. Do you really think “concern for her comfort” was his frame of mind or motivation? After seeing that video? I live in a city; not many grassy places to subdue people. From what I’ve seen, they try to lean them over the hood of the vehicle to subdue if necessary. That would have kept them in camera range as well. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1046 "2015-07-27T00:30:03Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Right, but I’m asking you whether you think he acted admirably. Then I’m not sure I understand the question. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1047 "2015-07-27T00:31:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then I’m not sure I understand the question. Do you admire his police work in this case? As in, “Wow, what an exemplary example of great police conduct and enforcement!” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1048 "2015-07-27T00:35:11Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > . > > It was exactly the character of his actions which was not admirable which applies some culpability for her death to him. In another thread someone posted a statistic. Something like 4 people commit suicide per ONE HUNDRED thousand arrests. She could have most likely easily avoided being arrested. She certainly had a very great deal of control over whether she committed suicide. IMO his moral culpability regarding the actual suicide is like a tiny fraction of a percent compared to hers. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1049 "2015-07-27T00:37:07Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > But I’d say that the legality of his actions does not bear directly on his moral culpability for her suicide IMO, no one has moral culpability for another’s suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1050 "2015-07-27T00:39:11Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Do you admire his police work in this case? > > As in, “Wow, what an exemplary example of great police conduct and enforcement!” His actions were within the letter of the law. Whether I “admire” them or not is not relevant. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1051 "2015-07-27T00:39:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Interestingly enough, there are roughly as many doctors in the US as there are policemen. If we’re willing for our taxes to go up two-three times so that policemen are paid as much as doctors, then we can demand their training is as thorough, as lengthy and as selective. Yes, because there is no middle ground as to how much training we can require. :rolleyes: In some places, a GED and four weeks training is all you need. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1052 "2015-07-27T00:39:38Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Bullshit. It was obviously not a lane change under Section 545.104. She didn’t need to change lanes. It was a move-over under Section 545.156. No signal required, or even permitted. 545.156 requires at least a siren, or lights and siren, or lights only. Those were not in use, so 545.156 does not apply. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1053 "2015-07-27T00:39:51Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > IMO, no one has moral culpability for another’s suicide. Obviously I disagree… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1054 "2015-07-27T00:41:34Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Nothing that this guy did was normal procedure. He had discretion NOT to use his flashers and sirens and he may have used his discretion. Or he may have used them. She was in the car with windows up air con on and radio on, she may not of heard him, but she certainly saw in her rear view window and made the legal maneuver of getting out of the way. The legal maneuver is only authorized when lights or siren are being used. The law is very clear on this point. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1055 "2015-07-27T00:43:46Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > She was fully cuffed _well_ before she was forced to the ground. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1056 "2015-07-27T00:45:00Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > It was exactly the character of his actions which was not admirable which applies some culpability for her death to him. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1057 "2015-07-27T00:48:04Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Yes, because there is no middle ground as to how much training we can require. :rolleyes: > > In some places, a GED and four weeks training is all you need. Does that make sense? It’s supply and demand. It does not take a rocket surgeon to give out traffic tickets (although some traffic cops may be quite brilliant, who knows). You pays your taxes, you gets your quality of cops. You want cops that will consistently, day after day, take the abuse from citizens that think that they “know their rights” and be unfailingly polite and correct - you will have to pay a LOT more than you do now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1058 "2015-07-27T00:48:18Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Can it technically be considered a lane change if she’s moving out of the way of a speeding police cruiser to the shoulder assuming he needs to go past her? > > It just doesn’t pass the smell test. But it passes the test of, “Is it a lane change?” It’s very difficult for me to understand on what basis you appear to be floating the idea that a vehicle which moves from one lane to another is not executing a lane change, but I would be very interested in hearing any specific statute or caselaw that supports the position that, technically or otherwise, it isn’t a lane change. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1059 "2015-07-27T00:49:07Z")
Yet, despite the laws, I don’t think any sane person would say, “Oh yeh… she needed to be incarcerated for several days.” I believe she wouldn’t have committed suicide if she wasn’t thrown in prison. While the actions of other people are entirely their own, such as her tragic suicide, it wasn’t a foreseeable, or even likely consequence of the cop’s arrest. However, it’s a consequence nonetheless. It’s not like it was an accident she was thrown in jail. She was placed there unreasonably by a bully officer, and the jail failed to keep her alive. I hope he’s feeling a modicum of indirect responsibility here, and reflecting all that much more on his behavior as an officer and it’s unpredictably tragic outcome. If it were me, I’m not sure I could sleep at night for a long while. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1060 "2015-07-27T00:50:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it passes the test of, “Is it a lane change?” > > It’s very difficult for me to understand on what basis you appear to be floating the idea that a vehicle which moves from one lane to another is not executing a lane change, but I would be very interested in hearing any specific statute or caselaw that supports the position that, technically or otherwise, it isn’t a lane change. If even it was a legal maneuver, she should have still signaled. The point of the signal is to alert other cars of your intended behavior. The information that you’re about to move right is valuable to a car rapidly approaching you from behind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=54)