# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1361 "2015-07-28T18:47:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite for the relevant law? I thought you were following? We were discussing giving the police the same, if not more power, a judge can rule for contempt of court. I argue that giving that sort of power to the police (contempt) is a road toward fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1362 "2015-07-28T18:54:59Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I thought you were following? Following what? Your post didn’t quote anyone else’s. No, there should be no “contempt” laws for policemen. That’s a ridiculous suggestion. When you’re stopped, you can be polite, or you can be hostile. Cops are human, so, just like from any other human, if you’re hostile, expect worse treatment than if you were polite. As I said, this is first world problems. I have lived in the US since 1980. I have had interactions with cops in a dozen of states, including just a few miles from where this incident occurred. I was always polite. So were they. Trust me, by world standards, that’s pretty amazing. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1363 "2015-07-28T19:11:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Following what? Your post didn’t quote anyone else’s. > > No, there should be no “contempt” laws for policemen. That’s a ridiculous suggestion. When you’re stopped, you can be polite, or you can be hostile. Cops are human, so, just like from any other human, if you’re hostile, expect worse treatment than if you were polite. > > As I said, this is first world problems. I have lived in the US since 1980. I have had interactions with cops in a dozen of states, including just a few miles from where this incident occurred. I was always polite. So were they. Trust me, by world standards, that’s pretty amazing. Sorry, I was confusing you with Smapti. Here’s the thread of discussion before you jumped in (FWIW, I agree with your quoted post): > [@billfish678](#): > > If I am not mistaken being a dick to a Judge in a court room has real world consequences pretty darn quick. > > I don’t see why a cop shouldn’t get the same treatment. And given the circumstances, I’d argue the cop deserves it MORE than the judge does. > [@cmyk](#): > > I’d argue that way lies fascism. > > At least the court room is a very controlled and ordered environment for legitimate reasons, and contempt disrupts that control and order and wastes everyone’s time. Contempt of court can be for a variety of reasons, not limited to the judge. > [@Smapti](#): > > If “being polite and civil to authority figures” is the definition of fascism, then call me Mussolini. > [@billfish678](#): > > A facist system isn’t going to exist even if cop’s have the power of God. A facists system will be facists (or what ever bad thing you want to worry about) when the laws and judges and lawyers are bad. > > So, a courtroom is controlled. I act like a dick towards the judge or lawyers. What’s the worst that happens? Somebody get’s their ego bruised? > > A traffic stop is very uncontrolled. You act like a dick towards a cop and he has heightened suspicion that things could go south. So, now he is tense. How the fuck does that help anybody? > [@cmyk](#): > > Think about the room for abuse by a cop, who has a taser, pepper spray, a baton and a firearm. You’re usually not in a controlled environment, s/he’s acting under their own discretion, and you say the wrong thing to the wrong kinda cop, and shit hits the fan. > > No fucking way, Mussolini. > [@cmyk](#): > > “Do you know why I pulled you over?” > > “Um, no officer.” > > “Did you just eye-roll me?!” > > “What?” > > “You heard what I said. Step out of the car.” > > “I didn’t eye-roll you, officer. My contact lens is—” > > “That’s a lawful order… get out of the car!” > > “But I didn’t—” > > “Now! Out of the car!” > > etc. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1364 "2015-07-28T19:28:13Z")
So [here are some experts talking](http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/experts-report-shows-sandra-bland-may-have-used-pot-in-jail/) about the amount of pot found in her system according to the [Preliminary Toxicology Report.](http://www.scribd.com/doc/272755306/Preliminary-Toxicology-Report-for-Sandra-Bland) They seem to be of the opinion that it is very likely that she smoked it while she was in jail, because the levels were almost too high for her to have been functional three days earlier if it was already in her system. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1365 "2015-07-28T19:31:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Here is the “etc.”. You step out of the car. You follow his instructions on where to go and where to stand. He gives you a lecture. You listen and nod. He gives you a ticket or just lets you go. End of story. > > What a horrible, horrible story, isn’t it? > > First world problems… Yes we should all give up our civil rights for convenience. Would you say the same if the cop asked you to get out of the car so he could search it sans warrant? What if a bully wants to punch your kid. Do you tell him to just let him hit you since it’s more convenient? No? Then why should I give in to a bully cop giving illegal orders under color of law? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1366 "2015-07-28T19:47:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Would you say the same if the cop asked you to get out of the car so he could search it sans warrant? If his search is truly unlawful, then you will be able to contest it in court. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1367 "2015-07-28T19:58:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > First world problems… Wouldn’t it be nice if our police acted like First world cops? You know despite their constant whine for bigger budgets, they get paid pretty well. How much do we need to pay them not to be puffed up little cunts? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1368 "2015-07-28T20:36:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Wouldn’t it be nice if **our** police acted like First world cops? You know despite their constant whine for bigger budgets, they get paid pretty well. How much do we need to pay them not to be puffed up little cunts? Do these problems exist in Canada, too? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1369 "2015-07-28T20:45:31Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Apparently it is for you. Here’s the actual thread of discussion. Try to read for comprehension… I read it the first time. My question remains unanswered. One more time, with feeling. _Quote: Originally Posted by **doorhinge** You said you wanted to “just wait”. I questioned whether you wanted to actually “just wait” or intended to not “just wait” and would just keep talking about the subject._ Shirley you must remember what your subject matter was? _Quote: Originally Posted by **cmyk** How 'bout we just wait and see how this all shakes out in a court of law, as intended._ Did you intend to just wait or did you intend to keep talking about it. “IT” being your subject matter. You’re either going to keep talking about it, or you’re going to wait for the court case before discussing it again. It’s really a yes or no-type of answer, but you can expand your answer if you feel the need. Either you are or you aren’t. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1370 "2015-07-28T20:47:53Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1371 "2015-07-28T20:55:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Wouldn’t it be nice if our police acted like First world cops? You know despite their constant whine for bigger budgets, they get paid pretty well. How much do we need to pay them not to be puffed up little cunts? Some places pay well, others, not so much. Like so many other things, the quality of the services depends on the tax base, usually, the property tax base. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1372 "2015-07-28T21:06:22Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > It’s the point where he says she can step out, that extends the stop impermissibly. No, it does not. > [@](#): > > Also, if it’s true that he can’t change his mind based on protected speech (which you haven’t addresses – is that valid?) then he goofed on that count. It’s true that he cannot exercise his discretion based on protected speech, as a general rule. But it’s not true that this is manifestly what occurred here. If he viewed the cigarette as a threat to his safety, politely asked her to extinguish it, and she refused, then he’s not changing his mind based on her protected speech, but on her possession of an item which can harm him. > [@](#): > > Do you really think he intended to continue to investigate the lane change with her outside the car? Just what kind of investigation? Really? It’s pure BS and any jurist without blinders on would see that it’s pure BS. No. But I think any jurist would credit his claim that given her obvious ire and combative attitude, he had some legitimate worry that he’d hand her the citation and she’d put out her cigarette on his hand. > [@](#): > > You have a point that he’d argue that he was concerned about use of the cigarette as a weapon. That claim would have been easy to maintain if he had done any of the following: > > - answered her question as to why she should put it out > - ordered her to put it out, rather than merely requesting it > - mentioned it in his report He doesn’t need to do any of those things, though, under Rodriguez. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1373 "2015-07-28T21:08:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Yes we should all give up our civil rights for convenience. > Would you say the same if the cop asked you to get out of the car so he could search it sans warrant? What if a bully wants to punch your kid. Do you tell him to just let him hit you since it’s more convenient? No? Then why should I give in to a bully cop giving illegal orders under color of law? Because the time to contest those orders is in court. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1374 "2015-07-28T21:08:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I read it the first time. My question remains unanswered. One more time, with feeling. > > _Quote: > Originally Posted by **doorhinge** > You said you wanted to “just wait”. I questioned whether you wanted to actually “just wait” or intended to not “just wait” and would just keep talking about the subject._ > > Shirley you must remember what your subject matter was? > > _Quote: > Originally Posted by **cmyk** > How 'bout we just wait and see how this all shakes out in a court of law, as intended._ > > Did you intend to just wait or did you intend to keep talking about it. “IT” being your subject matter. You’re either going to keep talking about it, or you’re going to wait for the court case before discussing it again. It’s really a yes or no-type of answer, but you can expand your answer if you feel the need. Either you are or you aren’t. Your choice. Good glory. This is boring the shit out of me and feels like a huge, pointless tangent, but one more time: I meant let’s wait and see what comes of the autopsy(s) and suicide investigation, rather than making bets on whether or not it was suicide, an accident or homicide. I did not mean let’s wait and see before we discuss anything in this thread. I meant rather than making bets on who’s right, let’s just see how it shakes out with investigation. The notion of placing bets on this case landed inappropriate to me. That’s all I have to say on this. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1375 "2015-07-28T21:29:55Z")
**Bricke** r, if you look me right in the monitor and sincerely declare that you believe that her cigarette was a compelling threat, well, OK. Sure can’t prove you’re not sincere, that’s between you and the face you shave. But he’s standing outside her car. He has a taser, a pistol, a clipboard, baton(?), and a radio to call reinforcements. She has a lit cigarette. To apply her weapon she has to grab it and thrust it through the car window to a precise target. _Precise_ target… eyeball or foreskin, something _effective_! Now, unless she can fling herself bodily _through_ the window from a sitting position…Bruce Lee, eat your heart out!..then she only has an effective range as long as her arm. He could step back two feet and talk louder. So, seriously, you believe that? No shit? That this threat rises to a level that an otherwise unjustified act becomes _kosher_? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1376 "2015-07-28T21:31:21Z")
**Bricker** , since you’re back, might you please look at Post 1327? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1377 "2015-07-28T21:32:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Wouldn’t it be nice if our police acted like First world cops? You know despite their constant whine for bigger budgets, they get paid pretty well. Lets see - Encinia was in DPS, right? He was there about a year, so - Probationary Trooper. That’s $43,000 salary. Right on the median for US full-time employees. If you think that’s getting paid “pretty well”… ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1378 "2015-07-28T21:36:00Z")
**’luc** , I think the brick has already declared his opinion that this cop’s actions were unacceptable. But he is also saying that, in a courtroom, if the cop claimed safety issues, the jurist would be very likely to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1379 "2015-07-28T21:36:49Z")
Suprising, given Texas’ legendary generosity towards the public sector, rivaling only with her wildly enthusiastic support for unions. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1380 "2015-07-28T21:43:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Lets see - Encinia was in DPS, right? He was there about a year, so - Probationary Trooper. That’s $43,000 salary. Right on the median for US full-time employees. If you think that’s getting paid “pretty well”… Starting salary (plus benefits) for a job with no college education or prior experience requirements? What are the higher paid options for someone with that resume? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=70)