# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 87
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1721 "2015-08-11T16:17:34Z")
> [@camille](#): > > I blame you. > > Why not? You have the same culpability as her family. > > The only people responsible for Sandra Bland’s safety while she was detained were her jailors. > > You can keep nitpicking, and deflecting, and insinuating all you like, but you cannot obscure that fact. Of course you do. I would expect nothing less. 😃 The fact remains that Bland’s family did not provide her bail. That would be depressing to the average person. It might prove deadly to a person suffering from depression and had previously attempted suicide. Bland had a very bad day. She was stopped by police. She was arrested. She spent the night in jail. She contacted her family. She spent the next 3 days in jail because her family wouldn’t bail her out. Sandra Bland was primarily and ultimately responsible for Sandra Bland. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1722 "2015-08-11T17:04:17Z")
you have an odd preoccupation with Bland’s family. It seems pretty clear to most people they had similar issues to Bland - poverty, etc. Did I understand the above youtube link correctly, 10-15% of the value of bail is lost regardless of the outcome of any court case? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1723 "2015-08-11T17:05:45Z")
[quote=“up\_the\_junction, post:1720, topic:725859”] No other first world country demands money. See if you can last 2:40 [/QUOTE] Is Canada a first world country? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1724 "2015-08-11T17:11:11Z")
There’s no upfront cash in Canada. A “surety” may require to put up collateral but no money changes hands when you are released on bail. [https://www.defencelaw.com/bail-4.html](https://www.defencelaw.com/bail-4.html) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1725 "2015-08-11T17:12:19Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Did I understand the above youtube link correctly, 10-15% of the value of bail is lost regardless of the outcome of any court case? Only if you use the bondsman to put up the bail while you only pay 10% of it. If you pay the full bail, you get it back, regardless of the outcome of the court. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1726 "2015-08-11T17:31:13Z")
Okay. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1727 "2015-08-11T17:33:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is Canada a first world country? Not helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1728 "2015-08-11T17:39:57Z")
[quote=“up\_the\_junction, post:1720, topic:725859”] No other first world country demands money. See if you can last 2:40 [/QUOTE] > [@Bricker](#): > > Is Canada a first world country? > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Not helpful. Why? You claimed, incorrectly, that no other first world country demands money for bail. Canada does. It seems to me you can now defend your claim by denying that Canada does, by denying that Canada is a first world country, or you can claim that Canada is not a True Scotsman in some way. But for the purpose of refuting your claim, my example is supremely helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1729 "2015-08-11T17:41:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There’s no upfront cash in Canada. A “surety” may require to put up collateral but no money changes hands when you are released on bail. > > [https://www.defencelaw.com/bail-4.html](https://www.defencelaw.com/bail-4.html) That’s true -– but the surety must demonstrate that he has the money. And he forfeits it if the accused fails to appear. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1730 "2015-08-11T17:47:11Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > you have an odd preoccupation with Bland’s family. It seems pretty clear to most people they had similar issues to Bland - poverty, etc. A preoccupation with Bland in a thread about Sandra Bland? I’m shocked, SHOCKED, that you would reject facts and opinions about Bland. Is that because you would prefer that the Bland families actions during her incarceration not be discussed? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1731 "2015-08-11T17:54:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s true -– but the surety must demonstrate that he has the money. And he forfeits it if the accused fails to appear. The surety could use assets to prove he could pay if he must. And the forfeiture of the money isn’t automatic, a hearing is required. I think it’s quite fair to say Canada does not demand money for release on bail. Also, up\_the\_junction was complaining about a monetized bail system. Bail bondsman are illegal in Canada - you can’t take money to act as a surety. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1732 "2015-08-11T17:55:07Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > you have an odd preoccupation with Bland’s family. It seems pretty clear to most people they had similar issues to Bland - poverty, etc. > [@doorhinge](#): > > A preoccupation with Bland in a thread about Sandra Bland? I’m shocked, SHOCKED, that you would reject facts and opinions about Bland. You don’t seem to parse full sentences, which is a bit awkward in a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1733 "2015-08-11T17:59:10Z")
deleted. _not worth it_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1734 "2015-08-11T18:23:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The surety could use assets to prove he could pay if he must. And the forfeiture of the money isn’t automatic, a hearing is required. I think it’s quite fair to say Canada does not demand money for release on bail. > > Also, up\_the\_junction was complaining about a monetized bail system. Bail bondsman are illegal in Canada - you can’t take money to act as a surety. Yes, true. But apart from the absence of third party bondsman, Canada clearly has a monetized bail system: sureties must prove they have money, and can forfeit money upon the failure of the accused to appear as promised. In the United States, bail bondsman are paid to act as sureties, which would be illegal in Canada, but other than that, they do the same thing: prove to the court they have money, and forfeit it if the accused fails to appear. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1735 "2015-08-11T18:40:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Also, up\_the\_junction was complaining about a monetized bail system. Bail bondsman are illegal in Canada - you can’t take money to act as a surety. But doesn’t that make things WORSE? A family has to come up with 5k say in Canada and prove that the government will get it should Bob go on the lamb. In America, the Bondsman will take a fraction of that 5K and keep it. If Bob goes on the lamb, the bondsman is responsible for the 5K to the government. If I ain’t rich, I sure know which one appeals more to me. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1736 "2015-08-11T18:46:38Z")
Well I think that a system that has basically built a loan shark industry is inherently more monetized than one that disallows it. Regardless, some googling shows that England can also require a “security” of actual cash in some cases for bail. So it’s definitely not true that no western nation demands money. One would have to dig in to actual common practices to see how the States implements cash requirements compared to other First World Nations. eta: I see what you are saying billfish, but it’s my impression that onerous cash requirements for bail are simply less often imposed in Canada. And if you are middle class and have some money in your savings, it’d be nice to just be able to show you have it rather than hand it to the court for an extended period. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1737 "2015-08-11T18:57:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well I think that a system that has basically built a loan shark industry is inherently more monetized than one that disallows it. > > Regardless, some googling shows that England can also require a “security” of actual cash in some cases for bail. So it’s definitely not true that no western nation demands money. One would have to dig in to actual common practices to see how the States implements cash requirements compared to other First World Nations. > eta: I see what you are saying billfish, but it’s my impression that onerous cash requirements for bail are simply less often imposed in Canada. And if you are middle class and have some money in your savings, it’d be nice to just be able to show you have it rather than hand it to the court for an extended period. Yes, IF Canadian bail is much more “affordable” to the common man then it may be better in some ways that’s for sure. But if it not, and in more high profile cases where it’s not so “affordable” then you are choosing between: USA: Poor people get screwed because they have to pay some bail money they WILL NOT get back no matter what. vs Canada: Hey, you are poor (or ain’t rich) and you ain’t getting bail period. I’m not seeing any moral high ground on either side there. PS. There is an “Ad” around these parts. It’s painted on the cinder block side of a non chain “quicky mart” store. It reads “Bob’s Bails bondman. Your family Bails bondsmain” I hate to be all judgmental and shit, but if your family needs a family bails bondsman…well…your family is just too fucked up 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1738 "2015-08-11T19:04:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > A preoccupation with Bland in a thread about Sandra Bland? I’m shocked, SHOCKED, that you would reject facts and opinions about Bland. Is that because you would prefer that the Bland families actions during her incarceration not be discussed? My view would be that Bland’s family had no particular duty to bail her out: she was an adult, living on her own. But the police had a duty to follow their own procedures, and because the police represent the will of the people, we as a society can and should question the propriety of police actions. Same goes for the jail. Bland’s family doesn’t have an obligation to account to the public for their decision to not bail her out. The sheriff has a duty to account for the conditions and procedures at the jail. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1739 "2015-08-11T19:07:15Z")
hmmm, it seems there are 6 States plus Washington,DC that don’t allow commercial bail bonds either. > **[How Much Does Bail Cost?](https://www.aboutbail.com/pages/bail-cost)** > > AboutBail has compiled a list of the allowable bail bond premiums by state to serve as a resource to illustrate how much bail costs in each state. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1740 "2015-08-11T19:20:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My view would be that Bland’s family had no particular duty to bail her out: she was an adult, living on her own. But the police had a duty to follow their own procedures, and because the police represent the will of the people, we as a society can and should question the propriety of police actions. > > Same goes for the jail. Bland’s family doesn’t have an obligation to account to the public for their decision to not bail her out. The sheriff has a duty to account for the conditions and procedures at the jail. Sandra Bland took her own life. I suggest that a family does have an obligation to it’s members. Not a legal obligation because, as you say, Sandra was an adult, but it’s an obligation just the same. It must be very depressing to discover that your own family would allow you to spend days in jail rather than pop for a $500 bail. I think it’s safe to say that Sandra’s life already sucked. Being arrested didn’t help her depression, but being abandoned by her family may have pushed her over the edge. When considering why Sandra chose to commit suicide, I believe everything should be considered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=86) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=88)