# Sandra Bland video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859 "2015-07-22T05:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 91
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1801 "2015-08-18T15:38:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > To both doorhinge and Smapti: You yourselves _both_ admit that the examples you’ve been able to come up with appear on the first page–in other words, right after the video was released. (Nearly a month ago, now). > > This does not support the contention that it’s “usual” to assert that “the sheriff who arrested Bland must have murdered her”–\* > > Support for doorhinge’s assertion would more properly include examples more recent than the 22 July release-date for the dashcam video (which prompted this thread). Yes, I was referring to the initial claims of murder that were being promoted by the media outlets and the internet. I find it amazing that media outlets can find so many pundits, alleged experts, and propagandists who are willing to so quickly provide an explanation for a situation where there are so few established facts. It’s as if “I don’t know the facts but…” has become the norm. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1802 "2015-08-18T16:36:21Z")
If that’s the case, I think many here in this debate do believe she committed suicide. If you follow my posts you can see I never really thought it was murder. I think you can stop accusing people in this thread now. So tedious. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1803 "2015-08-18T17:03:05Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > If that’s the case, I think many here in this debate do believe she committed suicide. If you follow my posts you can see I never really thought it was murder. > > I think you can stop accusing people in this thread now. So tedious. :yawn: “Tedious”? Really? I find it tedious when, once again, the media outlets, pundits, internet propagandists, bullies, and trolls champion their foregone conclusions before all (most of?) the facts are known. But that’s just me. Perhaps you don’t like being reminded that the initial claims of cop murders black women were wrong??? Those stories weren’t at all tedious. In hindsight, those stories were just plain embareassing. But I suspect that the usual suspects will try the same tactic in the near future. “_You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before_.” -Rahm Emanuel ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1804 "2015-08-18T17:30:43Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > :yawn: “Tedious”? Really? I find it tedious when, once again, the media outlets, pundits, internet propagandists, bullies, and trolls champion their foregone conclusions before all (most of?) the facts are known. But that’s just me. > > Perhaps you don’t like being reminded that the initial claims of cop murders black women were wrong??? Those stories weren’t at all tedious. In hindsight, those stories were just plain embareassing. But I suspect that the usual suspects will try the same tactic in the near future. > “_You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before_.” > -Rahm Emanuel And you’re not championing foregone conclusions, for example blaming her family for her suicide and absolving the people that were responsible for her care while she was in their custody? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1805 "2015-08-18T18:39:23Z")
> [@theR](#): > > And you’re not championing foregone conclusions, for example blaming her family for her suicide and absolving the people that were responsible for her care while she was in their custody? No kidding. If I were given custody of a teenager from a foster care program, and they committed suicide 3 days after living with me, don’t you think there ought to be an investigation into my culpability? To not do so would be irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1806 "2015-08-18T19:11:58Z")
Sandra Bland was not a teenager; she was an adult. And she did not come from a foster program - she was arrested for assaulting an officer. And I do not recall seeing **doorhinge** say that there should not be an investigation. Apart from that, spot on. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1807 "2015-08-18T19:17:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sandra Bland was not a teenager; she was an adult. And she did not come from a foster program - she was arrested for assaulting an officer. And I do not recall seeing **doorhinge** say that there should not be an investigation. > > Apart from that, spot on. > > Regards, > Shodan Not hip on analogies, I can see. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1808 "2015-08-18T19:53:51Z")
OK lets stick to the law here: The state was responsible for her care when in their custody. The family wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1809 "2015-08-18T20:07:55Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK lets stick to the law here: The state was responsible for her care when in their custody. The family wasn’t. As long as you promise to “stick to the law” in further discussions, sure. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1810 "2015-08-18T20:33:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As long as you promise to “stick to the law” in further discussions, sure. That’s right! No fucking jaywalking in this thread! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1811 "2015-08-18T22:18:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As long as you promise to “stick to the law” in further discussions, sure. Ouch. Take it easy on me willya. Next it’s gonna be the “comfy chair.” So go on with your discussion of the family’s responsibility in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1812 "2015-08-18T22:26:00Z")
You probably missed it, but the family’s apparent inability to bail Sandra Bland out was brought up in response to someone ( **Frylock**?) in this thread claiming that the arresting officer had “moral culpability” for her suicide. If he did, then the family had just as much if not more “moral culpability”. If you don’t want to discuss “moral culpability” anymore, I am fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1813 "2015-08-18T22:33:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You probably missed it, but the family’s apparent inability to bail Sandra Bland out was brought up in response to someone ( **Frylock**?) in this thread claiming that the arresting officer had “moral culpability” for her suicide. If he did, then the family had just as much if not more “moral culpability”. > > If you don’t want to discuss “moral culpability” anymore, I am fine with that. That only follows if you really, truly believe being thrown in jail for three days was the proper and logical outcome from what transpired. I can buy that everything was legal, but I don’t think her arrest was even close to being necessary. In that sense, she shouldn’t have been in custody in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1814 "2015-08-18T22:34:43Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > That only follows if you really, truly believe being thrown in jail for three days was the proper and logical outcome from what transpired. > > I can buy that everything was legal, but I don’t think her arrest was even close to being necessary. In that sense, she shouldn’t have been in custody in the first place. Ah so that decision to “stick to the law” only lasted for a couple of posts then. Or I guess it was only **drad dog** ’s decision, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1815 "2015-08-18T22:59:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah so that decision to “stick to the law” only lasted for a couple of posts then. Or I guess it was only **drad dog** ’s decision, not yours. :shrug: I guess. I abide by the forums rules. Making up your own debate rules only makes it look like you’re incapable of debate, so are employing some “handicaps”. GLWAT. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1816 "2015-08-18T23:13:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You probably missed it, but the family’s apparent inability to bail Sandra Bland out was brought up in response to someone ( **Frylock**?) in this thread claiming that the arresting officer had “moral culpability” for her suicide. If he did, then the family had just as much if not more “moral culpability”. > > If you don’t want to discuss “moral culpability” anymore, I am fine with that. The moral culpability can be a function of legal responsibility. I think the family is entitled to not bail her out and have their privacy about why they may not have. It wasn’t on the surface unreasonable. Ms Bland was under the legal custody of the state, not her family. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1817 "2015-08-18T23:24:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah so that decision to “stick to the law” only lasted for a couple of posts then. Or I guess it was only **drad dog** ’s decision, not yours. You make a lot of little pin pricks to distract but they’re so small. Can’t you ever respond to the issue you’re in the middle of? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1818 "2015-08-18T23:59:29Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > To both doorhinge and Smapti: You yourselves _both_ admit that the examples you’ve been able to come up with appear on the first page–in other words, right after the video was released. (Nearly a month ago, now). > This does not support the contention that it’s “usual” to assert that “the sheriff who arrested Bland must have murdered her”–\* > Support for doorhinge’s assertion would more properly include examples more recent than the 22 July release-date for the dashcam video (which prompted this thread). > > - –(these being a direct quotation from doorhinge’s post #1778, linked to in my post #1787 to which you both replied). > [@doorhinge](#): > > And you’d be wrong. You asked to what I was referring. Eye responded. Ewe don’t like the answer. That doesn’t change my reason. Your reply was non-responsive, in that it was a directive for me to “search this thread.” (See the reply quoted just below.) As I was not the one who had made a claim about what was “usual” for people to post, it is not up to me to provide evidence of the claim. It’s your claim; it’s up to you to support it. In the same post you seem to be confused, stating both that those who make the “usual” remarks reside only on dailykos, and that they are to be found in “this thread.” ??? Here’s that post: > [@doorhinge](#): > > The blood thirsty posters who regularly condemn police officers on dailykos qualify as “the usual”. It’s not difficult to search this thread. Then we have this post: > [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps **doorhinge** is referring to the fact that claims of murder were made at the beginning of the debate and never retracted. It seems to me that you regard the fact that the people who made those claims have simply stopped making them as sufficient to claim that they have conceded the point. It’s an interesting theory, but it strikes me as specious. If doorhinge had posted something like this: > [@](#): > > [Hypothetical doorhinge post:] Posts about Bland’s death, in the first couple of days after the dash-cam video was released, included three or four that implied that the sheriff who arrested her must have murdered her, and none of those people have come back to post any retraction of those implications. …then, I would think, no one would have any criticisms to offer. That claim seems reasonable. But, of course, what doorhinge actually posted was this: > [@](#): > > [Actual doorhinge post #1778 excerpt in quotes:] (Posts about Bland’s death) “include the usual condemnation/lie that the sheriff who arrested Bland must have murdered her.” These two things are not equivalent. For the theory (that all doorhinge meant to do was to point out that posters hadn’t retracted their earlier remarks\*) to be valid, then the two bits in quotes _would_ have to be roughly equivalent. And they are not. So doorhinge’s claim that it’s “usual” for posters here to claim that the arresting officer murdered Bland would appear to remain short on supportive evidence. \*More specifically, that a few posters, in the day or so after the video release, had posted remarks implying that the arresting officer had murdered Bland–and then had failed to return to the thread to say ‘I’ve changed the views I posted right after that video came out.’ ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1819 "2015-08-19T13:23:11Z")
> [@theR](#): > > And you’re not championing foregone conclusions, for example blaming her family for her suicide and absolving the people that were responsible for her care while she was in their custody? Except for the fact that I haven’t blamed the Bland family for Sandra’s choice of suicide AND I haven’t absolved the people responsible for her care while she was in custody AND I’m not championing foregone conclusions, you’re post is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859/1820 "2015-08-19T13:35:06Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK lets stick to the law here: The state was responsible for her care when in their custody. The family wasn’t. > [@cmyk](#): > > :shrug: > > I guess. > > I abide by the forums rules. Making up your own debate rules only makes it look like you’re incapable of debate, so are employing some “handicaps”. GLWAT. **cmyk** , meet **drad dog**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=90) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-bland-video/725859.md?page=92)