# Sandra O'Connor Resigns - Democrats Will Find "Extraordinary Circumstances" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712 "2005-07-01T15:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/281 "2005-07-11T02:33:40Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > This is the exact same comparison as your failed fireworks scenario. It is illegal to import or use fireworks in places that forbid them. It is illegal to import or use liquor in places that forbid it. It is not illegal to go somewhere where it is legal, blow stuff up or imbibe as the case may be, then return home. Your slippery slope is really a stretch. Not necessarily. The underlying foundation to the Conservative’s fight to repeal Roe V. Wade doesn’t have anything to do with state border lines, does it? No. Not really. It seems to me that it has everything to do with ownership. If you are pregnant in, say, Tennessee and drive to, say, Illinois to terminate said pregnancy then you return to Tennessee with one less living being in the car. A state that wants to guarantee that nobody will cross state lines to get an abortion will be a state that legislates ownership over the body of a pregnant woman. She returns without the baby? She’s guilty of murder. Lest we all think that’s an outlandish leap, think very carefully about some of the bigger and splashier cases in the media in the last few years. Scott Peterson is **not** guilty of one count of murder. He’s guilty of two. And so on. If the umbrella coverage that Roe V. Wade offers women is removed, then states are free to exercise considerable judgement over what they do or do not feel is life. If nobody in the judicial system is worried about controlling a woman’s right to chose whether or not she is pregnant, why there would be zero fuss over [RU 486](http://www.religioustolerance.org/aboru486.htm). However, we can see from this timeline cited that this is clearly not the case. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/282 "2005-07-11T03:03:43Z")
John Mace: > [@](#): > > (other then Washington, of course, who presumably had to appoint 9). I think there were only six in his day. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/283 "2005-07-11T03:15:29Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > …which is that one does not insert copyrighted materials into a post. I’m glad a safe link was found… Now, I’m just an old country chicken, but I think the prohibition is to inserting an _entire_ copyrighted article. We all include excerpts all the time, and thats copascetic. I suppose, _technically_, you could include the whole text of an article save for a word or two at the end, but then you’d be in violation of the “Don’t Be Cute!” rule. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/284 "2005-07-11T03:45:43Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Not necessarily. The underlying foundation to the Conservative’s fight to repeal Roe V. Wade doesn’t have anything to do with state border lines, does it? No. Not really. It seems to me that it has everything to do with ownership. > > If you are pregnant in, say, Tennessee and drive to, say, Illinois to terminate said pregnancy then you return to Tennessee with one less living being in the car. > > A state that wants to guarantee that nobody will cross state lines to get an abortion will be a state that legislates ownership over the body of a pregnant woman. She returns without the baby? She’s guilty of murder. Can you identify a single case where one state has prosecuted someone for commiting murder in another state? Because that is the issue that you are not addressing. Peterson killed his wife and her fetus in California, and that is where he was prosecuted. To make your analogy work, we’d have to assume that he lived in Oregon, took the pregnant wife to California, and returned alone. Now Oregon can prosecute him for murder? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/285 "2005-07-11T04:25:05Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > That’s because the article link you are referring to here is not the article I mentioned in my post, but you’re way too busy sniping at me to realize that, even though it was clearly identified as such. Pity, that. > > However, I do thank **E\_Sabbath** for finding the complete text of the article online anyway. I didn’t see that, I only looked for it within the New Yorker site. Good find. > > A careful read shows that Scalia did indeed give that interview, and the article does indeed exist. Sorry it sounded as though I was pulling, what was it? Crap out of my ass? By obeying a rule of SDMB, which is that one does not insert copyrighted materials into a post. I’m glad a safe link was found- my only option was to start typing in and copying text into a post. Your coarsely worded description of my defensive powers aside, copying the article into a post here was not an option. > > Scalia sounds pretty proud of his textualist position in the interview. That was the foundation of my remarks. A very careful read through the entire article may yield the same impression. It may not of course, but to me he sure came off as a textualist first before anything else. > > Fine. Cited. 🙂 So what? You deduced that Scalia would restric freedom of speech from the impress you got that he was "proud’? Look, if you’ve got specific quotes to back up your claims, let see 'em. I never doubted that articles existed, I only doubted only your cartoon version of Scalia’s jduicial opinions. So far you have given us not one single fact to back up your claims. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/286 "2005-07-11T05:13:54Z")
Yeah, OK, **John** , but there’s more to it than that, there’s a human dimension to the issue of Scalia, an aesthetic dimension: Justice Scalia is the ugliest white man on Earth. And if Mike Tyson suddenly dies, well, that’s that, isn’t it? He looks like a constipated horny toad, like Yoda with a shitty attitude. When he was a child, Helen Keller sicced her dog on him. (You could look it up!) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/287 "2005-07-11T05:49:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, OK, **John** , but there’s more to it than that, there’s a human dimension to the issue of Scalia, an aesthetic dimension: Justice Scalia is the ugliest white man on Earth. I’v got one word for you, **'lu** : Bork. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/288 "2005-07-11T05:51:21Z")
Nah, John, Bork was named Sexiest Man Alive by _Amish People_ magazine. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/289 "2005-07-11T05:58:32Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’v got one word for you, **'lu** : Bork. Who or what is eating letters out of my posts? I previewed that, and it was fine… I’d like to buy a one vowel and one consonant, please. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/290 "2005-07-11T10:55:20Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Can you identify a single case where one state has prosecuted someone for commiting murder in another state? Because that is the issue that you are not addressing. Peterson killed his wife and her fetus in California, and that is where he was prosecuted. To make your analogy work, we’d have to assume that he lived in Oregon, took the pregnant wife to California, and returned alone. Now Oregon can prosecute him for murder? Of course I cannot. This Debate is about what will happen when Ms. O’Connor steps down- and now because time marches forward, what will happen when Mr. Rhenquist steps down as well and two vacancies are filled by our President. The analogy cannot work now because Roe V. Wade has not yet been repealed- and states have not enacted laws making it a crime to abort a baby in another state just because they have outlawed abortions in their own state. Before I get jumped for making suppositions that cannot be backed up by cite, consider this: It’s 1994. We’re all happily posting in here. ( Let’s assume the SDMB existed in present form then ). I say in this thread, " You guys just wait, the day is coming when sexual offenders who prey on children will have to let the states keep track of them by registering their whereabouts and allowing their addresses to be known by local law enforcement folks. That means that EVERYBODY in town will know where the rapist lives. Not only that, but I bet someday, a state will enact a law demanding that if a convicted sex offender lives in their state, they have to permit a small tracking device to be embedded under their skin or locked around their ankle to track their whereabouts for the rest of their lives. In 1994, I might be called on bullshit. Might I familiarize some of you with the group of so-called Megan’s Laws? And, furthermore, might I remind readers of the recent legislative efforts in the State of Florida? [Florida’s Sex Offender GPS Tracking Law](http://gps.engadget.com/entry/1234000007042088/). In fact, Florida AND Oklahoma has passed these laws. New York, New Jersey ( where Megan’s Law originated ) and Pennsylvania are also considering similar laws. And here, for those who want to read the foundation cite, is [Megan’s Law](http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/megan/), in it’s entirety, courtesy of the State of New Jersey. So. A fairly amazing set of laws, no? 10 years ago it’d have been almost unbelievable to consider such. And now, a few states have made it the law of the land and more are soberly considering them. In the context of these past cites, it is not at all unreasonable to say that while no state has made it a crime to abort a child across state lines and then return to your home state **without your living fetus within you because of an active choice you made when out of state** , that doesn’t mean it is not beyond the realm of believable to think it will happen once Roe V. Wade is dismantled. My position is that it is not only not beyond the realm of believable, but to be entirely expected. A patchwork of deeply conservative states will immediately ban all abortions and then enact laws very similar to the ones I describe here. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/291 "2005-07-11T12:42:54Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Of course I cannot. That’s really as far as I needed to read. So in addition to changing its reading of the 14th Amendment, you predict that a change in justices will result in changes in basic assumptions of criminal law, state sovereignty, and the right to travel. And in support of this rather ambitious claim you’ve got . . . nuthin. :rolleyes: ::slowly backs away:: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/292 "2005-07-11T14:00:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’v got one word for you, **'lu** : Bork. 54% of Bork’s face is obscured by beard, while only 34% of Scalia’s face is obscured by eyebrows. Advantage Bork. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/293 "2005-07-11T18:26:54Z")
Since this thread is pretty wide ranging, I [started a new one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325009) with some questions I had about the proper role of ideology in opposing judicial nominations. I invite everyone to respond. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/294 "2005-07-11T18:39:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > 54% of Bork’s face is obscured by beard… You’re behind the times. [Look](http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bbork%2Bpicture%26prssweb%3DSearch%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fl%3D0&h=284&w=432&imgcurl=staceycramp.com%2Fimages%2FPortraiture%2FBork.jpg&imgurl=staceycramp.com%2Fimages%2FPortraiture%2FBork.jpg&size=56.0kB&name=Bork.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstaceycramp.com%2Fpages%2FBork.htm&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstaceycramp.com%2Fpages%2FBork.htm&p=judge+bork&type=jpeg&no=1&tt=42&fr=my-vert-web-top) (if you dare). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/295 "2005-07-11T19:33:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > 54% of Bork’s face is obscured by beard, while only 34% of Scalia’s face is obscured by eyebrows. Advantage Bork. What? No room for po’ Dick Cheney here? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/296 "2005-07-11T19:36:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You’re behind the times. [Look](http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bbork%2Bpicture%26prssweb%3DSearch%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fl%3D0&h=284&w=432&imgcurl=staceycramp.com%2Fimages%2FPortraiture%2FBork.jpg&imgurl=staceycramp.com%2Fimages%2FPortraiture%2FBork.jpg&size=56.0kB&name=Bork.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstaceycramp.com%2Fpages%2FBork.htm&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstaceycramp.com%2Fpages%2FBork.htm&p=judge+bork&type=jpeg&no=1&tt=42&fr=my-vert-web-top) (if you dare). Good heavens, that man hasn’t aged well. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/297 "2005-07-11T19:59:37Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Good heavens, that man hasn’t aged well. Few do after receiving the political equivalent of a swirly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/298 "2005-07-11T20:20:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It baffles me now to hear complaints. Surely, if the prospect of the judiciary having such great power and sway is so great, we shouldn’t be hearing any caterwauling now, should we? > > Or did you support that system only as long as it delivered the results you wanted? “I’m shocked! Shocked that gambling is going on in this establishment!” 🙂 People, on both sides of the aisle, tend to value results over process. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/299 "2005-07-11T21:14:32Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > “I’m shocked! Shocked that gambling is going on in this establishment!” 🙂 People, on both sides of the aisle, tend to value results over process. Results should be what we expect from the legislature. If we expect the judiciary to return results over process, then we are ceding far too much power to them. Their job is to interpret the law. That’s a process. The legislature’s job is to create the law. That’s a result. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712/300 "2005-07-11T21:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Their job is to interpret the law. That’s a process. The legislature’s job is to create the law. That’s a result. And then there’s common law. Which, under this conception, is a mess. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandra-oconnor-resigns-democrats-will-find-extraordinary-circumstances/310712.md?page=16)