# Sandy Berger investigated for stealing terror memos **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919 "2004-07-20T01:26:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/221 "2004-08-04T18:54:51Z")
A lot of people were wondering why the hell he did what he did, and jeopardized John Kerry’s candidacy in the process. I’m certainly not alone among Dopers and news organizations pondering such. So yes, I plead guilty to wondering aloud about his motives. I certainly don’t feel bad about doing it, though. Why should I? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/222 "2004-08-04T22:09:06Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I see the concept of an “analogy” is too much for your intellect to comprehend, **RTA**. > > And there certainly is controlling authority, namely the United States Code: > > > [@](#): > > > > […]becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, **knowingly** removes such documents or materials without authority **and with the intent** to retain such documents[…] > > As you can see, motive doesn’t figure in the text of this statute. > > Now, as I said, prosecution may or may not proceed apace. But Berger is guilty of a crime by his own admission. And all of your spinning, **RTA** , won’t change that. Is he “guilty by his own admission”? According to your cite, he is not guilty of any crime, since he did not knowingly remove, with the intent to retain, any documents. By his own admission, that is. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/223 "2004-08-04T22:28:26Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > So yes, I plead guilty to wondering aloud about his motives. I certainly don’t feel bad about doing it, though. Why should I? An honest nswer would immediately send this thread into The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/224 "2004-08-05T00:45:08Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > A lot of people were wondering why the hell he did what he did, and jeopardized John Kerry’s candidacy in the process. But… based in part on elements of the story that turned out to be false. I would think that this would lead to wondering more about the motives of those who leaked the story, including details that are still unconfirmed or directly rebutted by the only third-party people to actually speak publically about the case with actual names attached. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/225 "2004-08-05T04:04:35Z")
I haven’t read the whole thread, so my apologies if this has already been noted, but, he has been cleared of all wrongdoing, you know. [http://www.kyw1060.com/news\_archives\_detail.cfm?newsitemid=39459](http://www.kyw1060.com/news_archives_detail.cfm?newsitemid=39459) > [@](#): > > Clinton Adviser Berger Cleared of Document Theft (07/30/04) > President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger – who’d been accused of stealing classified material from the National Archives – has been cleared of all wrongdoing. > > The National Archives and the Justice Department have concluded nothing is missing and nothing in the Clinton administration’s record was withheld from the 9-11 Commission. > > The Wall Street Journal reports archives staff have accounted for all classified documents Berger looked at. Funny how only one paper reports this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/226 "2004-08-05T04:28:08Z")
Ironically enough, the Republicans now have a fire in their own ranks of a similar nature. It seems like Senator Richard Shelby (Rep) of Alabama enjoys [divulging](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40886-2004Aug4.html) classified information to Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/227 "2004-08-05T05:16:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Senator Richard Shelby (Rep) of Alabama enjoys [divulging](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40886-2004Aug4.html) classified information to Fox News. Then there’s Katherine Harris (R FLA), who just makes up terrorist plots, and claims that she’s divulging classified info: [Harris Regrets Bogus Terror Plot Claim](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=3&u=/ap/20040805/ap_on_go_co/harris_terror_plot) ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/228 "2004-08-05T19:40:50Z")
**Mr. Moto** > [@](#): > > I see the concept of an “analogy” is too much for your intellect to comprehend, RTA. [Moderator Hat ON] Take it down a notch, Mr. Moto. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/229 "2004-08-05T19:46:52Z")
Gotcha. Sorry about that, **RTA**. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/230 "2004-08-06T18:34:27Z")
So, now, apparently, Berger has been cleared? All documents are accounted for, he only took copies, as he said, there is no source for the “sock” thing other than our friendly neighborhood pre-convention leaker, and even the archives doesn’t think there was any attempt to destroy or hide documents. What now? ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/231 "2004-08-06T19:47:17Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > So, now, apparently, Berger has been cleared? All documents are accounted for, he only took copies, as he said, there is no source for the “sock” thing other than our friendly neighborhood pre-convention leaker, and even the archives doesn’t think there was any attempt to destroy or hide documents. > > What now? If I am not mistaken, removing **copies** of classified documents from the National Archives is a crime. Oh, here’s what. As usual, Coulter nails it. > [@](#): > > I’ll have the Sandy Berger and a side of lies. > [Ann Coulter: Biography and Latest Articles](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20040805.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/232 "2004-08-06T19:50:59Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > I’ll take a couple cruise missiles over a $125+ billion invasion any day. I’ll agree with you there. I’ve been against Gulf Wars I and II. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/233 "2004-08-06T21:01:53Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > As usual, Coulter nails it. That line alone is worth the price of admission for today’s entertainment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/234 "2004-08-06T22:22:26Z")
> [@](#): > > If a real crime really occurred which was half as serious as you perpetrate it to be, he would be in irons right now. The matter is closed, finito. “No controlling legal authority” is calling what he did a crime, and wishing never made something so WOW what a great idea, no crime was committed if the guy is not already in irons, do you know how much this could save our court system :rolleyes: What he did is treason pure and simple, I hope he is hanged! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/235 "2004-08-06T22:46:16Z")
When you’re citing Coulter as an authority, you’re in _real_ big trouble. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/236 "2004-08-06T23:01:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What he did is treason pure and simple, I hope he is hanged! What if I told you that someone leaked _highly_ classified national security information that “could get people killed” to a “nefarious figure from the dark side of the [Iranian] regime - an individual with a **direct hand in covert operations directed against the United States** ”? Would you feel as strongly about that person as you do about Mr. Berger? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/237 "2004-08-06T23:04:12Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > If I am not mistaken, removing **copies** of classified documents from the National Archives is a crime. Perhaps, but it is a crime for which neither the Archives nor the Justice Department (the ASHCROFT Justice Department) saw fit to prosecute. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/238 "2004-08-07T00:20:07Z")
\*\*SimonX \*\*, what you describe could be the actions of a spy on our side, their side or the other side for that matter. You are really trying to make a political point I assume, but fall way short. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/239 "2004-08-07T00:39:48Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What he did is treason pure and simple, I hope he is hanged! Your ignorance of what constitutes treason is showing: > [@](#): > > \*\*[U.S Constitution, Article. III, Section 3. Clause 1:](http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html) \*\* > > _Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court_. Let’s see: levying war, nope. Adhering to enemies, nope. Giving aid and comfort to enemies, nope. Sorry Mr. Prosecutor **kanicbird** , your case fails, and since double jeopardy now attaches, I guess we have to let him go! And it’s all your fault! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919/240 "2004-08-07T00:40:40Z")
**kanicbird** , let me [fill you in](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/02/chalabi.iran/). Should we hang Paul Wolfowitz? And as long as you’ve got the rope out, are you ready to string up Senator Shelby for leaking classified intel to Fox News? How about whoever it was in the White House who blew Valarie Plame’s cover to the press, endangering not only her own life but the lives of all of her contacts? You better start looking for trees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-berger-investigated-for-stealing-terror-memos/255919.md?page=13)