# Sandy Hook Parents about to sue AR-15 manufacturer... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143 "2014-12-13T17:53:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/161 "2014-12-19T18:00:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am not very concerned as I believe suicide is a _choice_ each of us may make. Even if its done in a fit of temporary depression and regretted afterwards? I’m as pro voluntary euthanasia as anyone, but most suicidal people need psychiatric help more than they need a bullet in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/162 "2014-12-19T18:14:08Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Even if its done in a fit of temporary depression and regretted afterwards? I’m as pro voluntary euthanasia as anyone, but most suicidal people need psychiatric help more than they need a bullet in their heads. I agree. Psychiatric help is highly suggested. But it’s still their choice. As long as they arent trying to take me with them, it’s their life, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/163 "2016-05-10T03:09:13Z")
NEWTOWN, CT- Connecticut State Judge Barbara Bellis denied a motion to delay the discovery process in the lawsuit against gun companies over the Sandy Hook Elementary School mass shooting. A few quotes: > [@](#): > > The lawsuit filed by law firm Koskoff, Koskoff and Bieder argues that the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle shouldn’t have been released to the public and belongs only in the hands of military and law enforcement personnel. > [@](#): > > They argue the rifle shouldn’t have been entrusted to the general public because it is a military-style assault weapon that is unsuited for civilian use. Erm… when exactly was it legally established that there’s such a thing as a “military gun”? And I don’t buy the claim that it’s comparable to the tobacco lawsuits, because what the tobacco companies were held liable for was lying for decades about the health risks of cigarettes, not for selling a legal product. Guns are deadly- duh! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/164 "2016-05-10T03:51:04Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > . . . Erm… when exactly was it legally established that there’s such a thing as a “military gun”? . . . There have been higher restrictions on certain kinds of guns – most notably fully-automatic weapons – for a very long time, and these restrictions have – so far – passed review by the courts. I can walk into any gun shop in town and buy a semi-automatic rifle, but no shop in town will sell me a fully-automatic rifle. Or, come to think of it, an anti-tank rocket. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/165 "2016-05-10T21:26:29Z")
Why is it the manufacturer’s fault? If somebody went on a rampage with a chainsaw, the response wouldn’t be to sue Husqvarna. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/166 "2016-05-10T21:58:07Z")
If the chainsaw had extra features that made it a lot more deadly than necessary just to cut branches off trees…then maybe. (“The Extend-o-Blade thrusts out ahead of you, and the Bend-o-Blade swoops around corners! Our new Stealth Engine is almost impossible to hear! You’ll love the way it flings little bits of metal ahead of you in an expanding cloud!”) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/167 "2016-05-10T22:53:27Z")
“Warning: Do not fire Amaz’n Laser at the President.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/168 "2016-05-10T23:07:51Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Why is it the manufacturer’s fault? If somebody went on a rampage with a chainsaw, the response wouldn’t be to sue Husqvarna. It would be (the response to a chainsaw massacre) if your goal was to put Husqvarna out of business. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/169 "2016-05-10T23:44:51Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > There have been higher restrictions on certain kinds of guns – most notably fully-automatic weapons – for a very long time, and these restrictions have – so far – passed review by the courts. > > I can walk into any gun shop in town and buy a semi-automatic rifle, but no shop in town will sell me a fully-automatic rifle. > > Or, come to think of it, an anti-tank rocket. Right, and the AR-15 is not a military rifle. Certainly not subject to tighter restrictions than any other semi auto rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/170 "2016-05-11T02:22:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Erm… when exactly was it legally established that there’s such a thing as a “military gun”? > [@Trinopus](#): > > There have been higher restrictions on certain kinds of guns – most notably fully-automatic weapons – for a very long time, and these restrictions have – so far – passed review by the courts. > > I can walk into any gun shop in town and buy a semi-automatic rifle, but no shop in town will sell me a fully-automatic rifle. > > Or, come to think of it, an anti-tank rocket. Yes and no. Thanks to that embarrassing Second Amendment, officially establishing some weapons as permitted for government troops but forbidden to citizens would be on shaky constitutional grounds. What’s actually happened is that a number of workarounds have been enacted over decades to effectively accomplish the same thing. First, the 1934 NFA heavily regulated (but not banned) automatic weapons by masquerading as a federal revenue tax. Then in combination with the requirement that all full-auto weapons be federally registered, the government now simply refuses to accept any further registrations. And possession of explosives is either heavily regulated or banned in different areas, which eliminates most heavy military ordinance because they either use explosive warheads or use charges of propellant large enough to be considered explosive devices in their own right. Imagine if the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech had been gelded by a long series of laws banning sedition, slander, obscenity, incitement to riot, “hate speech”, revealing classified information, etc.- all carefully written so as to supposedly fall under some established government authority rather than flatly declaring that freedom of speech can simply be banned at will. Or compare the notorious Jim Crow laws- on paper completely neutral and fair- that somehow always had the effect of limiting blacks’ right to vote (so notorious that even today Voter ID is condemned as a trick to disenfranchise African-Americans). Or if freedom of assembly was constrained by crowd control ordinances and parade permit requirements that made almost every non-approved gathering illegal. IOW, All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/171 "2016-05-11T02:32:03Z")
But, wait, there are actually limitations on the right to free speech—defamation, invasion of privacy, intellectual property law, etc. Those are real and generally accepted as valid. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/172 "2016-05-11T02:47:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > But, wait, there are actually limitations on the right to free speech—defamation, invasion of privacy, intellectual property law, etc. Those are real and generally accepted as valid. Yes, if someone can prove harm from an actual event. Just as there can be laws and lawsuits when someone is actually harmed in an assault. The correlation to gun control laws would be restrictions on typewriters, printing presses and computers because they could be used in an improper manner. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/173 "2016-05-11T03:09:01Z")
Even as someone on the pro-gun side, I have no problem with having tighter restrictions on fully automatic firearms. The difference is one of control: a properly functioning semi-automatic weapon requires an action on the part of the user each time it fires. Even in the military semi-automatic or burst fire is generally preferable to fully automatic fire, and in civilian use it makes it less likely for a bullet to go somewhere you don’t want it to. Banning “assault weapons”, on the other hand, is basically fraud. It’s an attempt to deceive people by conflating assault rifles with the superficially similar “assault weapons.” ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/174 "2016-05-11T06:22:56Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > but no shop in town will sell me a fully-automatic rifle. That’s because (according to the info on your stats) you live in California. Fully automatic are legal for civilians in the U.S. under federal law and in about [40 states](http://www.opencarry.org/maps/machine-guns/). The hardest part about acquiring one are their expense, not legalities. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/175 "2016-05-11T15:22:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > But, wait, there are actually limitations on the right to free speech—defamation, invasion of privacy, intellectual property law, etc. Those are real and generally accepted as valid. Yes and there are also limits on bad acts that can be committed with a gun. What you are trying to do when you restrict guns instead of restricting the acts that can be committed with a gun is the equivalent of restricting who can own a particular type of printing press because a much harm can come from a bad actor’s use of free speech. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/176 "2016-05-11T18:15:25Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Why is it the manufacturer’s fault? If somebody went on a rampage with a chainsaw, the response wouldn’t be to sue Husqvarna. Run, forest, run! [http://www.ebay.com/itm/Husky-Run-Forest-XL-T-Shirt-/111989760130?hash=item1a131c2082](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Husky-Run-Forest-XL-T-Shirt-/111989760130?hash=item1a131c2082) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/177 "2016-10-17T19:46:52Z")
[Lawsuit dismissed:](http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Judge-tosses-Sandy-Hook-gun-manufacturer-awsuit-9971983.php) > [@](#): > > The judge ruled the lawsuit does not satisfy the exception to federal law that gives immunity to gun manufacturers for the actions of gun owners under the federal Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) or the Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act (CUTPA). > “Although PLCAA provides a narrow exception under which plaintiffs may maintain an action for negligent entrustment of a firearm, the allegations in the present case do not fit within the common-law tort of negligent entrustment under well-established Connecticut law,” the judge wrote. “A plaintiff under CUTPA must allege some kind of consumer, competitor or other commercial relationship with a defendant, and the plaintiffs here have alleged no such relationship.” ---
**Author:** ![Yogurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f0a364/32.png) [@Yogurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yogurt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/178 "2016-10-17T21:51:06Z")
Wonderful news. I’m almost certain they will appeal however, seeking a more favorable anti-gun climate perhaps in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/179 "2016-10-17T23:44:48Z")
> [@Yogurt](#): > > Wonderful news. > > I’m almost certain they will appeal however, seeking a more favorable anti-gun climate perhaps in a few years. Any other result would have been shockingly inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143/180 "2016-10-18T01:17:10Z")
> [@Yogurt](#): > > Wonderful news. > > I’m almost certain they will appeal however, seeking a more favorable anti-gun climate perhaps in a few years. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Any other result would have been shockingly inappropriate. > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton@HillaryClinton:“It’s incomprehensible that our laws would protect gun makers over Sandy Hook families. We need to fix this.” No, “they” don’t want to take our guns- they just want to establish that firearms are inherently dangerous objects that have no place in a civilized society. :dubious: But what about hunting you say? Google “hunting is murder”, and the various sites that suggest that hunters are mentally akin to sociopaths.:dubious::dubious: And gun control advocates wonder why gun owners bristle at even the tiniest concession. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sandy-hook-parents-about-to-sue-ar-15-manufacturer/707143.md?page=10)