# Santa claus is fake, unless you are at some school in florida
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 3, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761 "2003-12-03T19:50:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/1 "2003-12-03T19:50:26Z")
[http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/WorldNewsTonight/santa\_fake\_flap\_031203.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/WorldNewsTonight/santa_fake_flap_031203.html)
I was reading today an article about how a school teacher told her first grade class that Santa Claus isn’t real. Whether or not I would have done that I am not sure of, but because of the parent’s getting upset. They are bringing in “Santa” aka “some man dressed as santa”, to prove he is real.
Maybe I am slow, but why are they doing this? Santa isn’t real. When they told me in school that Jesus wasn’t real, and we came from dinosaurs, nobody demanded that they bring in some guy nailed to a cross to prove he is real. When I went to a private school, and someone said that evolution is a myth, no one went out and found some dude to dress up as Cro-Magnun(sp?) man .
I might be making something out of nothing, but to me this is rediculous.
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### Author:  [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/2 "2003-12-03T19:59:48Z")
It’s more that, some parents want to preserve their child’s “innocence” as long as possible. They have the “dinosaur” thing fairly well covered now I think, but to tell a 6 or 7 year old that “Santa isn’t real.” is kinda mean spirited. It’s also not her place to do so, that’s between the parents and children, and to be done at the child’s pace.
Most parents want to “play Santa” as long as possible, and it makes them a little sad to think of the day when they will have to explain to the child about the “Spirit of Giving/Caring” and that Santa is a representation of this etc.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/3 "2003-12-03T20:06:43Z")
Did a public school actually tell you that “Jesus wasn’t real,” or was that just your own inference fro being taught evolution.
A public school cannot declare the truth or untruth of any particular religion. Saying “Jesus isn’t real” would be a violation.
Accordingly, since Santa is a figure associated with a Christian holiday, I would think that declaring him to be “real” (aside from being false) might also seen as a tacit endorsement of Christianity. If there are non-Christian kids in the school this could be a problem. How would a Jewish kid feel about being taught in school that Santa is real?
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### Author:  [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/4 "2003-12-03T20:07:54Z")
well I can’t say that I am not biased, Because I will never tell my kids that santa is real anyway, But why are they bringing in a fake santa to prove how real he is? Does that even make sense?
When I was a kid I got sent home from school because I told my class santa wasn’t real, I wish my parents would have told me that not every child knew that Santa wasn’t real.
I also fail to see how this is any different than teachers telling people who’s children have different religous views, that we evolved from whatever it is we evolved from. But like I said a little earlier I am slow on the uptake, so maybe someone can explain to me how any of this makes sense.
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### Author:  [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/5 "2003-12-03T20:10:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> \*\*Did a public school actually tell you that “Jesus wasn’t real,” or was that just your own inference fro being taught evolution.
>
> A public school cannot declare the truth or untruth of any particular religion. Saying “Jesus isn’t real” would be a violation.
> \*\*
Yep, in every science class I had the teachers all went on about how Christianity was a myth, along with other world religions, and that we all evolved.
Of course in my private school, they all went on about how Evolution was silly, so I guess its all par for the course.
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### Author:  [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/6 "2003-12-03T20:10:57Z")
Santa is primarily associated with Christianity, true. However, there are several cultures in which he has “older roots”. Nordic Santas, have a distinctly pagan flavor. (Chris Kringle, Sinterclaus etc.) It could be argued that Santa has “morphed” into an all embracing symbol of Caring/Giving, with no particular religious ties. At least, among the people of varied religions I’ve known, this is so.
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### Author:  [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/7 "2003-12-03T20:23:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Deadly Nightlight \*
> \*\*Yep, in every science class I had the teachers all went on about how Christianity was a myth, along with other world religions, and that we all evolved. \*\*
please remove the “the” from between had and teachers and put a “that” after teachers and before all. Sheesh:smack:
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### Author:  [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/8 "2003-12-03T21:36:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Zabali\_Clawbane_
> Most parents want to “play Santa” as long as possible, and it makes them a little sad to think of the day when they will have to explain to the child about the “Spirit of Giving/Caring” and that Santa is a representation of this etc.
>
> _Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic_
> Accordingly, since Santa is a figure associated with a Christian holiday, I would think that declaring him to be “real” (aside from being false) …
Spoiler tags, dammit! _ **Spoiler tags!** _
You two can just rock me to sleep tonight.
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### Author:  [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/9 "2003-12-03T22:23:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Deadly Nightlight \*
> \*\*Maybe I am slow, but why are they doing this? Santa isn’t real. \*\*
Not so fast, bub. Allow me to quote at length from our host and all-around master of the universe, Cecil Adams.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Besides, to believe in Santa Claus is to believe in magic. The belief in magic in many respects is a pernicious thing. Because of it you’ve got countless multitudes thinking that aliens abduct people, that Elvis is alive, that you can earn big money stuffing envelopes in your home, and that the TV preacher can cure you if you send him 50 bucks. A certain class of persons, of whom your columnist is one, will go through their lives attempting to extinguish these foolish hopes. No doubt in the main it is good that we do so. But even the sternest among us remembers the wonder we felt as children to think there was a force having a kindly interest in us that wasn’t bound by the rules of this drab world. Wherefore if there’s someone who’s going to say flat out that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, it’s not going to be me.
\*\*
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a971226.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a971226.html)
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### Author:  [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/10 "2003-12-03T22:28:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Deadly Nightlight \*
> **Yep, in every science class I had the teachers all went on about how Christianity was a myth, along with other world religions…**
I’m very surprised to read that.
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### Author:  [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/11 "2003-12-03T22:35:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Deadly Nightlight \*
> **Maybe I am slow, but why are they doing this? Santa isn’t real. When they told me in school that Jesus wasn’t real, and we came from dinosaurs, nobody demanded that they bring in some guy nailed to a cross to prove he is real.**
Not to mention the fact that just bringing in some guy in a suit isn’t exactly ironclad proof. Instead they should have strapped Santa to the polygraph and worked him over for a couple of hours, maybe bring in a little good cop/bad cop action. That would have convinced the kids beyond a reasonable doubt. It might sound a bit extreme, but I’m a big believer in doing whatever it takes to preserve the magical innocence of childhood.
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### Author:  [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/12 "2003-12-03T23:18:56Z")
It’s December. Must be time for the “Kids Told Santa Isn’t Real” newstory.
And here it is… I swear it gets earlier every year.
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### Author:  [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/13 "2003-12-03T23:38:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \*
> \*\*It’s December. Must be time for the “Kids Told Santa Isn’t Real” newstory.
>
> And here it is… I swear it gets earlier every year. \*\*
Just like shitty Christmas music on the ray-dee-oh.
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### Author:  [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/14 "2003-12-03T23:39:41Z")
I truly don’t get why people think it’s such a great thing to tell their children about Santa. Cecil may speak of “wonder we felt as children to think there was a force having a kindly interest in us that wasn’t bound by the rules of this drab world,” but all that wonder born of ignorance is crushed in the several seconds it takes the mind of a seven year old to answer the question: “Why did Santa put the box for my bike in our dumpster?” with “Because my parents are _FUCKING LIARS_”
Seriously. No crotch apple spawned of Metacom will ever be led to believe this hideous fabrication: My sprogs are gonna know that the bike they got for Christmas was bought with money that I work hard for and choose to spend on him or her out of love; _NOT_ because some fat guy in a red suit who was Jesus’s uncle or something excercises his cervine bondage fetish on the 25th of December. What kind of message does it convey to the young when you have to make things up to make the world seem like a good place?
I believe what I’ve written–but this is my first Pit rant so do allow me some hyperbolizing, please.
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### Author:  [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/15 "2003-12-04T00:45:23Z")
Um. Can I just be the first person to say, Jesus was real. You may question whether or not he was the son of God, divine, or the only true savior, but that he was a person is fairly well established, isn’t it?
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### Author:  [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/16 "2003-12-04T01:10:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zabali\_Clawbane \*
> \*\*Santa is primarily associated with Christianity, true. However, there are several cultures in which he has “older roots”. Nordic Santas, have a distinctly pagan flavor. (Chris Kringle, Sinterclaus etc.) It could be argued that Santa has “morphed” into an all embracing symbol of Caring/Giving, with no particular religious ties. At least, among the people of varied religions I’ve known, this is so. \*\*
Just an add to this- not raised Christian, was told Santa didn’t exist when I first went to school, but was also told not to tell other kids just to keep frm there being problems. What -does- bug me is the ‘Santa brings the good boys and girls presents’ angle. No presents? You must have been a bad child. I still don’t quite understand the idea of telling your children a lie that you know you’ll eventually have to undo, instead of just saying “we love you, and we want to give you a gift in the spirit of the season.”
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### Author:  [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/17 "2003-12-04T01:53:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Metacom \*
> \*\*What kind of message does it convey to the young when you have to make things up to make the world seem like a good place?[/size] \*\*
I don’t know, what kind of message does it convey to the young to refer to them as “crotch apples”? 😉
[sub]Excellent, excellent phrase, by the way. I will steal it and use it often.[/sub]
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/18 "2003-12-04T02:04:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by FisherQueen \*
> \*\*Um. Can I just be the first person to say, Jesus was real. You may question whether or not he was the son of God, divine, or the only true savior, but that he was a person is fairly well established, isn’t it? \*\*
There is no contemporary historical evidence that Jesus existed but there are a couple of extra-Biblical references to him which were written after his death. Josephus and Tacitus both mention him as the leader of the Christians who was executed under Pilate. That’s about all they say, though, and their information likely came from Christians themselves rather than independent sources.
However there is enough circumstantial evidence, notably the movement of Christianity and its associated writings, that there was almost certainly some historical person called Jesus. There is no smoking gun, though and there _is_ a school of scholarship called “mythicism” which takes the position that Jesus was a wholly fictitious creation.
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### Author:  [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/19 "2003-12-04T02:08:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Deadly Nightlight \*
> \*\*Yep, in every science class I had the teachers all went on about how Christianity was a myth, along with other world religions, and that we all evolved. \*\*
Huh. I never heard that, and I’ve lived in various southern (read: very conservatively Christian) places most of my life. In the college-level science classes I took in Georgia, we were told, “You don’t have to believe this, but you do have to learn it.” That doesn’t seem like a bad compromise; it’s a lot better than avoiding the subject out of fear of offending somebody.
I know of a couple of people that brought in creationist books for the professors’ edification, but I’m sure the profs took them (if they did) with a thank you and stuck them way on the back of a shelf somewhere…
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/20 "2003-12-04T02:17:40Z")
**DtC** -Have any cites? I’m especially interested in books. It’s not that I don’t believe you, I want to read up on that particular line of thought. It sounds interesting.
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