# Santa claus is fake, unless you are at some school in florida **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761 "2003-12-03T19:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/21 "2003-12-04T02:24:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Metacom \* > **I truly don’t get why people think it’s such a great thing to tell their children about Santa. Cecil may speak of “wonder we felt as children to think there was a force having a kindly interest in us that wasn’t bound by the rules of this drab world,” but all that wonder born of ignorance is crushed in the several seconds it takes the mind of a seven year old to answer the question: “Why did Santa put the box for my bike in our dumpster?” with “Because my parents are _FUCKING LIARS_” > . . . What kind of message does it convey to the young when you have to make things up to make the world seem like a good place?** Well, in answer to the first part it teaches them that their parents (and by extention any authority figure) may lie from time to time for reasons that may not be apparent. As a die-hard skeptic and critical thinking fan I think that it’s an important lesson. To the second part, I can only quote someone far smarter than me who once SAID. > [@](#): > > \*\*YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES (before you can believe the big ones). JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING….TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—AND YET YOU ACT LIKE THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME…SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/22 "2003-12-04T02:38:42Z")
It’s interesting. My parents would have been _pissed_ if someone had tried to tell me Santa Claus was real. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/23 "2003-12-04T03:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\ ***DtC** -Have any cites? I’m especially interested in books. It’s not that I don’t believe you, I want to read up on that particular line of thought. It sounds interesting. \*\* [Here is a good place to start. This site has links to a lot of articles, online books and book reviews on the subject. [url=http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/] Here is a link to the homepage for Earl Dougherty’s “Jesus Puzzle” site which contains more articles as well as the entire text of his book of the same name (the book is in Adobe, though. Sorry). [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812693922/102-3867017-9269719?v=glance]Here](http://www.didjesusexist.com/wellsprice.html) is the Amazon link for _The Jesus Myth_ by G.A. Wells. All this stuff should at least give you a basic idea of what the reasoning is for the mythicist theory. _The Jesus puzzle_ actually presents Dougherty’s theory in a novelized form and it’s quite readable even if you don’t agree with his conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/24 "2003-12-04T03:14:20Z")
Oops. accidentally gave you the wrong page for the first link. Here is the [homepage](http://www.didjesusexist.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/25 "2003-12-04T03:17:39Z")
Man, I really botched that first post. Here are the other two links again. [http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/](http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/) [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812693922/102-3867017-9269719?v=glance](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812693922/102-3867017-9269719?v=glance) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/26 "2003-12-04T03:30:47Z")
Bah! My rug rodents are 14 and 12. They have been taught that in this household, Santa is real, and to stop believing in Santa is to stop receiving loot under the tree on Xmas morning. To reinforce this, presents will disappear from one day to the next if doubt is expressed. For the woefully anally retentive, this is a game we play with the kids, who know as well as I do that Santa isn’t real (but the Great Pumpkin is, he just never gets to our house until 12/25). Still, they remember from half their lifetime ago when presents under the tree disappeared whenever they would say Santa isn’t real. They would all become believers faced with an empty tree (and a full car trunk, the only place they couldn’t search) when they went to sleep on Dec. 24. Yes, I was cruel. Why do you think I had kids to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![Dizzy\_Fingers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dizzy\_Fingers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dizzy_Fingers)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/27 "2003-12-04T03:43:56Z")
I would like someone to prove that I am _not_ Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/28 "2003-12-04T03:51:34Z")
I don’t see the point of your game, D\_Odds. Were the kids supposed to learn some kind of a lesson, and what was it? ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/29 "2003-12-04T03:54:36Z")
Dizzy, lacking any such proof, I have no recourse but to ask you for a BMW, a four-day golf trip to Pebble Beach, and Katey Holmes in a red teddy. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/30 "2003-12-04T03:57:48Z")
Er, the OP – dumb shit school. I don’t mind them bringing in a Santa, except for the fact it’s not completely unreligious even if lots of Jewish people and so on do celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas, but because they are putting out a fake to prove a lie… that makes a pretty dumb point. But the teacher shouldn’t have said Santa was a fake. And I have to wonder if Deadly Nightlight’s memories are a bit exaggerated… if the science teacher really went out of their way to say Religions (and not myths of origins) were fake. I don’t doubt such a thing would happen, but I don’t think it’s really the way most science teachers would spin it. But kids hear different things than what grown ups say. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/31 "2003-12-04T04:10:16Z")
Thanks, **DtC**. ---
**Author:** ![Deadly\_Nightlight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/32 "2003-12-04T05:32:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eli\_the\_fanatic \* > \*\* And I have to wonder if Deadly Nightlight’s memories are a bit exaggerated… if the science teacher really went out of their way to say Religions (and not myths of origins) were fake. I don’t doubt such a thing would happen, but I don’t think it’s really the way most science teachers would spin it. But kids hear different things than what grown ups say. \*\* No, I am not exagerating. Both my chemestry and biology teachers said pretty much the same thing. I was 16 and 17 at the time. I think I had a good grasp on what the grown ups said. Especially my Biology teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/33 "2003-12-04T05:36:49Z")
[Jesus PROVEN!](http://www.geocities.com/ossuary_ark/). Well, archaeological evidence that points to a real historical figure, let’s say. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/34 "2003-12-04T07:20:41Z")
Sorry, **Beagle**. [It’s a fake.](http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/06/18/jesus.box/) ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/35 "2003-12-04T07:42:07Z")
WHAT!!! Santa not real? ☹ I have alvays been a litle bit suspicious about Your motives. Yes, You, You there on the other side of The Pond. Fucking anarco-commies! Soon someone will tell that Donald Duck is not real! :mad: Henry ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/36 "2003-12-04T14:03:03Z")
Is Santa Claus real? It depends how you clintonize the question, or, more benignly, how you interpret the time-binding of the copula. One wonders how many myths (a/k/a prejudiced lies) are told to children about historical figures whose reputations have essentially nothing to do with reality. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/37 "2003-12-04T14:10:34Z")
I’ve never been a big fan of Santa Claus…the popular image of him strongly resembles an elderly alcoholic! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/38 "2003-12-04T14:30:54Z")
**eli** , the only point is to make my children’s eyes roll in frustration as they are forced to admit in their parents’ presence that there is a Santa Claus, and maybe embarass them a little when friends are over. I’ve told them many, many times that if I fail to embarass them, especially in public, them I’m failing in my job as a parent. You probably don’t get any of that either. Try reading it again with tongue firmly planted in cheek. This is light-hearted stuff, not full on _sturm und drang_. **BrotherCadfael** , don’t forget pedophile, all those kids sitting on his lap and everything. Still, John Ashcroft looks the other way until he can get his hands on Santa’s naughty/nice technology. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/39 "2003-12-04T15:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Sorry, **Beagle**. [It’s a fake.](http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/06/18/jesus.box/) \*\* That’s OK. If I ever put any religious factoid next to a capitalized “PROVEN!” – assume there is a dubious smilie hereinafter. Did anyone ever see the Black Adder where, eh, Percy? talks about “saint’s bones” and Black Adder says something like “well, yes, I can get those two dozen for a quid” or something like that? I studied medieval history. In those days of yore, cranking out relics was a cottage industry. Today it’s gone high tech. ---
**Author:** ![Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercury)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761/40 "2003-12-04T20:06:07Z")
You know, I really try to be tolerant…but I can’t understand WHY parents choose to tell their children that Santa is real, that he comes down the chimney at Christmas, and that he leaves presents for all the good boys and girls. Every child I know who believed in Santa was devastated to find out it was not real. They felt like they’d been lied to (they were) and they felt like they’d lost something (they had). You can preserve your child’s “innocence” by letting them believe in Santa Claus, but eventually that innocence is gonna be _lost_. If you’re lucky, they’ll find out when they’re mature enough to handle it, and if you’re not lucky something like this will happen, and they may be very sad. When I was a child, I was told the myths of Father Christmas and Santa characters from other cultures. It was explained to me that people belived in this, and I shouldn’t ruin it for them (I did anyway, but what do you expect from a 6-year-old?), but I was never told that it was true. It seems like parents who tell their children Santa is real are setting them up for disappointment. ~M [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santa-claus-is-fake-unless-you-are-at-some-school-in-florida/216761.md?page=3)