# "Santa's not coming"? PETA does it again. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116 "2003-12-10T07:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/61 "2003-12-11T05:02:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eli\_the\_fanatic \* > I can’t help you with your sense of humor, but while admittedly painting with a broad brush, the gist of the thing – the practices of corporate farmers, the treatment of animals, the end of the family farm, and the “Happy Farm” label they smack on the package, was right on the money. Whatever you think of PETA, you cannot deny that the conditions are exactly as they describe for a majority of the meat products you by. You can choose not to give a shit, and you can say anyone (like members of PETA) who do give a shit are nuts, but you can’t say it isn’t accurate… that’s lying to yourself. Sorry, but I gotta side with **Avalonian**. I have no problem with PETA pointing out appalling conditions at factory farms, but they then basically wreck their argument by concluding that you should go vegetarian, not that you should support responsible farming practices. The majority or meat product that **I** buy come from small, local, responsible producers, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/62 "2003-12-11T12:01:50Z")
The worst thing about this story is that [it’s no longer possible to write to Santa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3307695.stm) and comiserate :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/63 "2003-12-11T15:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eli\_the\_fanatic \* > \*\*You can choose not to give a shit, and you can say anyone (like members of PETA) who do give a shit are nuts, but you can’t say it isn’t accurate… that’s lying to yourself. \*\* Typical PETA members are not nuts. It’s their leadership which is of questionable mental stability; one can extrapolate from Ms. Newkirk’s statements that she won’t be happy until the human race is extinct. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/64 "2003-12-11T15:16:32Z")
According to an incredibly authoritative site which milk has made me too lazy to link to, reindeer milk is especially bad for you: _"The richest milk of any domesticated animal is that of the reindeer. The reindeer is raised for its milk by the Laplanders in the Arctic regions. The reindeer milk has a 22.3 percent butterfat content. Reindeer milk is also 10.3 percent protein which is about three times that of cow’s milk. Reindeer’s milk is only 2.5 percent sugar which is half as sweet as human milk. The Laplanders drink as much of this nourishing milk as they can, but that isn’t very much. The female reindeer at the height of the milking season only produces about a cup of milk each day. "_ This explains why Laplanders so rarely star in porno movies. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/65 "2003-12-12T01:29:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*This explains why Laplanders so rarely star in porno movies. \*\* That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in months. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/66 "2003-12-12T01:42:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > \*\*The worst thing about this story is that [it’s no longer possible to write to Santa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3307695.stm) and comiserate :eek: \*\* I’m sorry but that’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/67 "2003-12-12T22:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eli\_the\_fanatic \* > \*\*\>The Center for Consumer Freedom is a nonprofit coalition supported by restaurants, food companies, and consumers working together to promote personal responsibility and protect consumer choices. > > I doubt the CCF is the most fair and balanced organization. \*\* PETA is? ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/68 "2003-12-13T02:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > **Now they’re picking on Clay Aiken? So sad.** This campaign would have featured Triumph the Insult-Comic Dog, and a jab like that sounds perfect for Triumph. Apparently, they’re now planning to use the slogan “Cut 'em off-they don’t taste that good, anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/69 "2003-12-13T03:04:52Z")
I once threatened PETA with their own tactics. I told them I was going to put explosives in a cow and set it off in front of their HQ. They said that it would be _abominable._ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/70 "2003-12-13T03:07:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moriah \* > \*\*I once threatened PETA with their own tactics. I told them I was going to put explosives in a cow and set it off in front of their HQ. > > They said that it would be _abominable._ \*\* GAAAAAAAAHHHH! _shudders_ _twitches_ _falls to the ground in a heap_ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/71 "2003-12-13T03:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moriah \* > \*\*I once threatened PETA with their own tactics. I told them I was going to put explosives in a cow and set it off in front of their HQ. > > They said that it would be _abominable._ \*\* And one noble bovine. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/72 "2003-12-13T13:58:30Z")
**eli\_the\_fanatic** have you ever actually been on a functioning dairy farm? Do you know any dairy farmers? Have you had any personal encounters with the people who run dairy farms? Do you really know what a family farm is like? Honey, prepare to meet one pissed off dairy farmer’s daughter. I’ve spent a lot of time around cows. My entire family has. We run a family dairy farm. In fact, the farm has been in our family since 1848. You might say that dairying is in our blood; we even come from the Dairy State. We are part of the proud tradition of dairy farming in Wisconsin. For these reasons, I feel I am able to offer an opinion based on 19 years of experience hanging out around cows and reading Hoard’s Dairyman because it was the most exciting magazine in the house: If you treat your cattle well, from birth to death, you will not only make a higher profit, you will be less likely to encounter the situations that PETA takes so much joy in advertising. From a purely economic standpoint, insuring that your cattle are well-watered, well-fed, and comfortable is just good business sense. It 1) saves on vet bills, 2) increases milk yields WITHOUT resorting to BGH, and 3) just makes your life a hell of a lot easier. A good dairy cow is worth a lot of money. Mistreating one is about the same as treating your car like crap – eventually it won’t run anymore and you will have lost a lot money in the process. When one dies, it’s both an economic and emotional loss. As stupid as the critters are, you become attached to them – some of them are downright loveable. As for PETA’s allegations that ALL the animals are kept in squalor and in totally inadequate conditions, there are hundreds and hundreds of regulations which a farmer must comply with if s/he wants to be able to market their product. The number only increases as you climb from the different grades. If you want to sell Grade A milk, you’ve got to treat your animals well and have your grounds in tip-top shape. If you don’t, the inspector won’t pass you and you won’t be selling that grade. Simple as that. (For a list of the Wisconsin requirements go here: [http://www.uwex.edu/milkquality/Regulations/](http://www.uwex.edu/milkquality/Regulations/) ) These guidelines are not in place merely to protect humans from disease, they are also to prevent the mistreatment of herd animals. Deliberate mistreatment of animals will get your license yanked just as quickly as manure in the milk. Essentially, any farmer with any business acumen at all will treat his livestock well. It pays off and lord knows it’s hard enough to make a living in the dairy industry with a good business plan, let alone one which entails high fatality rates and low individual milk yields. > [@](#): > > From: [http://www.goveg.com/active/cmp-ffa51.html](http://www.goveg.com/active/cmp-ffa51.html) > A truly “free range” system should be phased in—animals should be allowed to live their lives breathing fresh air, fulfilling their desires, eating a normal diet, and doing what comes naturally to them. Whenever I read things like this, I always wonder if the members of PETA would each be willing to take a minimum of five cattle as pets, to live in their homes, while they pay for all the food it takes to keep them running as well as cleaning up their massives poos. I also like to imagine them in a field, hundreds of yards away from a fenceline, between a bull and a cow in estrus. Wearing a red shirt. (Such an image makes me happy when I think of the anti-milk campaigns. I’m a diabetic. When I saw milk listed as a cause of diabetes, it seriously pissed me off. My diabetes was not caused by milk; it was caused by a viral infection that made my immune system attack my islets of Langerhans so that I don’t produce insulin anymore.) Sometimes the desires of cattle and what comes naturally to them run counter to a human sustaining life. I’ve always basically seen the aim of PETA as the complete eradication of the meat and dairy industries – forget their praise of the family farm. What they envision is a utopia where cattle and humans can peacefully co-exist, perhaps picnicking in a field together, on the most delectable of Kentucky bluegrass, while their children run together free, bound by no fences. In this vision, animals will eventually rise to their proper place in the world, perhaps as members of PETA themselves, rampantly decrying pet-owners everywhere. They see cattle as a sort of very large dachsund or poodle – “Ah! Aren’t they cute?!?” Should the dairy and beef/pork/poultry industries collapse, people aren’t going to want to keep around a bunch of animals they aren’t making profit off of, leading to the extermination of a ton of animals that otherwise would be alive. Eventually, a domesticated species would be virtually extinct. This would seem counterproductive to PETA’s aims, unless they’re willing to have an EXTREMELY large lap dog for a pet. Sarah Dear sweet lord, where did _that_ come from? I’m a . . . conservative? _faints_ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116/73 "2003-12-13T14:47:52Z")
**lillalette** , next to PETA Barbara Streisand is a conservative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/santas-not-coming-peta-does-it-again/218116.md?page=3)