# Sarah Bernhardt! Edwin Booth! Lillian Russell! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 8, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273 "2005-10-08T02:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/21 "2005-10-08T21:01:12Z")
May I hijack. I was a work. I was talking about Dashiell Hammett. I got the deer in the headlights look. “You know, Sam Spade, Maltese Falcon, the movie with Humphrey Bogart…no…?” That’s when I dug myself ra deep hole… not having heard of Maltese Falcon I went for “lover of Lillian Hellman…you know, playwrite, author of The Children’s Hour.” Haven’t lived it down since. People that have a vague notion of who Humphrey Bogart was are not going to recognize Lillian Hellman’s name as anything other than “did her family make mayonaisse.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/22 "2005-10-08T21:40:44Z")
Well, the assumption is that people don’t know about them. I once made reference to Sarah Bernhardt in a YA story; the editor asked me to change it. I did not. It was a joke and I preferred to keep it in and have one in a thousand people pick up on it, then remove it. The reference was as follows: I knew something was wrong when I woke up inside the coffin. I’m no Sarah Bernhardt. … . * * * When I explain the joke, people love it. I’m glad I kept it in. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/23 "2005-10-08T22:26:35Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Good god, don’t tell Janice Dickenson! > > There was an interesting segment on Nesbit on a recent episode of the sometimes-slagged PBS show _The History Detectives_. Worth catching in repeats IMHO. There’s also a movie on the Thaw murder case, _The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing_, which I’ve not seen. But it stars Joan Collins, which could be a strike against it. No idea how historically accurate it is. And I missed it-grrrrr! Janice Dickenson is a stupid, overrated hag. “First super model” my ass. Even IF we disqualify Nesbit, I would think Twiggy was far more famous and well-known than she ever was. I’ve seen _Ragtime_ (didn’t read the book, but I think I shall), but I’ve never seen the Joan Collins movie. It would be a great story for movie now, I think. The cool thing is that both Thaw and Nesbit were from right here in Pittsburgh. The local regional history center has the Thaw family papers in their archives, so I was able to use them in my paper. At one point, Nesbit was engaged to John Barrymore-but Stanford White disapproved, and since he was her “sugar daddy” she listened. Too bad she ended up with Thaw instead-he was crazy. I mean, really, literally diagnosed as mentally ill. **Eve** , how in the hell could anyone misspell “Nesbit?” I’d consider her a celeb, since she did act on stage, and model for illustrations (Gibson), and was a dancer after she left Thaw in the 1910s. Honest to god truth: I first learned about Theda Bara by reading a _Sweet Valley High_ book. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/24 "2005-10-08T22:35:49Z")
And after posting that I realized that Nesbit technically was ruled out because she was 20th century. D’oh! Okay, how about Mathilde Kschessinska, _prima ballerina absoluta_ for the Imperial Ballet and I believe later the Ballet Russe, who was the mistress of Tsar Nicholas II? She lived to be almost 100 years old, and was still dancing in her 90s. I think she was one of only TWO _prima absolutas_ in Imperial Russia, because she was a soloist to the court. She got her start in the late 1900s. Did Lola Montez ever appear on stage, or was she just an adventuress? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/25 "2005-10-08T22:35:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Eve** , how in the hell could anyone misspell “Nesbit?” You see it as “Nesbitt” occasionally. Years later, she said, “Stanny was lucky–I lived.” (Theda Bara was in a _Sweet Valley High_ book?!) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/26 "2005-10-08T22:46:23Z")
Yup. In one of the fancy special editions, where they tell the story of their ancestors. The twins’s great-grandmother, Samantha, was also a twin and was obsessed with movie stars. Oh, and that should read that Kschessinska got her start in the early 1800s. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/27 "2005-10-08T23:42:11Z")
Perhaps the never-to-be-surpassed tragedian, William Topaz McGonagall? And he admired Kean, too: Originally published by **a reporter who interviewed McGonagall in Newport, Scotland, in 1880:** > [@](#): > > “What is the first part of your evening’s performance?” we then asked. “Oh, the tent scene from Richard the Third comes first. I’ll play that well.” > > I then expressed a preference for a recital from his own works rather than from those of Shakespeare. > > “Oh yes,” was the reply, “I always find that those who come to hear me do that. You see I am much more versatile than Shakespeare. The only man I ever knew who could come up to me in versatility was Edmund Kean. He could tell a story, he could sing a comic song, and declaim a tragedy.” > > “Did you ever think of writing a tragedy with yourself as the hero?” “No,” was the reply, “but I have all the tragic feelings within me.” All that talent and modesty too! How can the author of [The Faithful Dog Fido](http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/poems/opgfido.htm) and the 19th century’s definitive [MacBeth](http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/articles/failures.htm) ever truly die? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/28 "2005-10-09T00:11:34Z")
I’d heard of Maude Adams. Everyone knows about the Booth acting family, don’t they? Heard of Jenny Lind and Tom Thumb of course(come on, tell me the latter’s \*real \* name!) Sarah Bernhardt and the coffin, of course. When did she lose her leg? The Russian ballerina I read about in Robert Massie’s Nicholas and Alexandra, she was Nicholas’ mistress, but he broke it off when he married. She went on to marry his uncle I think, in exile after the Revolution. Lillie Langtry has been _portrayed_ by several actresses, but I remember best Francesca Annis in the TV mini-series. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/29 "2005-10-09T00:29:35Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Heard of Jenny Lind and Tom Thumb of course(come on, tell me the latter’s \*real \* name!). Charles Stratton. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/30 "2005-10-09T03:06:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Did Lola Montez ever appear on stage, or was she just an adventuress? She did act, but she was primarily a dancer. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/31 "2005-10-09T04:16:44Z")
Ah, well then I guess Lola counts. **Baker** , I think after Nicholas broke it off (sorry, I should have mentioned it was before he got married-no way he was cheating on Alexandra), she sort of went back and forth between two of his cousins, and ended up marrying one of them, Grand Duke Andrei. (I don’t think she ever knew which of the men fathered her son, but Andrei accepted him as his own). I think Edward VII lost his virginity to another actress, but damned if I can remember her name. I do know that Queen Victoria and Prince Albert had a near coronary over the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/32 "2005-10-09T04:25:48Z")
Neat little bit of trivia about Sarah Bernhardt, BTW: What is the most famous play written to showcase her? Cyrano de Bergerac – She played Roxanne ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/33 "2005-10-09T05:30:25Z")
Of all the names listed so far, the only one I’ve ever heard of is John Wilkes Booth. And I honestly think that the majority of people in this country would not be able to recognize even his name. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/34 "2005-10-09T14:44:27Z")
I had relatives who were involved in minstrel shows. I’ve always thought this was an amazing subculture. While my relatives were southern, their troupe was most popular in New England and Canada, and the really big names travelled Europe and a couple even made it into Asia Minor. Just incredible how recent that was (even the black performers performed in black face- the dancing sensation Master Juba [considered the father of tap dance- Charles Dickens was among his biggest fans] was so famous and admired he was actually allowed to appear in his natural skin color [mulatto] without the burnt cork). There’s a play about Sarah Bernhardt and Eleanore Duse entitled _Ladies of the Camelias_- I’m not sure if it’s any good. Booth is a character in _Assassins_ (and also the subject of a wonderfully gossipy if you can find it “biography” called _This One Mad Act_ written by Izola Forrester, who claims that 1) he survived the barn [was in fact never there] 2) was her grandfather through a secret teenaged marriage. It was a huge bestseller in the 1930s but has been out of print for more than a half century. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/35 "2005-10-09T15:00:17Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Now, I’m not typical, in that I’m pretty much familiar (unhealthily so) with such ancient theatrical stars as Rosina Vokes, Maurice Barrymore and the great Julian Eltinge. I was wondering, though, what 19th-century stage stars’ names are still familiar to the Average Gazookis on the Street? John Wilkes Booth, sure, but not for his acting. Sarah Bernhardt and Lillian Russell . . . Is that pretty much it? > > Has anyone today–short of other stage historians–heard of people once classed as Superstars? Famous worldwide? People who inspired riots and suicides and cigars bands? The biggest of the big: Adah Isaacs Mencken? Charlotte Cushman? Edwin Forrest? Joseph Jefferson? Helena Modjeska? Richard Mansfield? Maude Adams? I am afraid I have only heard of the ones above, not the ones below. I am a bit of a movie buff but not the stage. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/36 "2005-10-09T17:00:16Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Of all the names listed so far, the only one I’ve ever heard of is John Wilkes Booth. > > And I honestly think that the majority of people in this country would not be able to recognize even his name. I’m actually kinda relieved to have a “normal person” show up to confirm my original suspicions–and I suspect you’re right about “the majority of people in this country.” But, honest, you’ve never even _heard_ the name “Sarah Bernhardt?” ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/37 "2005-10-09T17:16:13Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > May I hijack. > > I was a work. I was talking about Dashiell Hammett. I got the deer in the headlights look. “You know, Sam Spade, Maltese Falcon, the movie with Humphrey Bogart…no…?” That’s when I dug myself ra deep hole… not having heard of Maltese Falcon I went for “lover of Lillian Hellman…you know, playwrite, author of The Children’s Hour.” > > Haven’t lived it down since. People that have a vague notion of who Humphrey Bogart was are not going to recognize Lillian Hellman’s name as anything other than “did her family make mayonaisse.” Whuh…? Now, I wouldn’t really expect most people to recognize Hammett’s name (or Hellman’s, for that matter), but I’d think Sam Spade, the Maltese Falcon, Humphrey Bogart, etc. should all ring a bell for reasonably educated people. AndI’d be seriously depressed if the majority of Americans didn’t know the name John Wilkes Booth – even if they didn’t know he was an actor. Sic semper tyrannis! ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/38 "2005-10-09T18:35:19Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Neat little bit of trivia about Sarah Bernhardt, BTW: What is the most famous play written to showcase her? > > Cyrano de Bergerac – She played Roxanne Do you have a cite? In a brief search, I could find no corroboration of that claim (although it’s clear that the playwright did write parts for her, just not that one), but I found [one site](http://www.shakespearedc.org/cyrasi_about.html) that claimed that play was written for someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/39 "2005-10-09T19:13:35Z")
I mention for no particular reason that a nickname for drama queen leading ladies, especially in college & amateur theater, has long been “Sarah Heartburn”. I’ve known several who were called this and had not the slightest notion to whom it was a reference (actors not _generally_ being the best read of people anyway and amateur all the moreso). The Divine Sarah was the only 19th century person I can think of who possibly rivalled or surpassed Barnum in terms of PR and self promotion. The casket photos, the balloon rides, the fights, etc., were all preMansfield brilliant publicity generators. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273/40 "2005-10-10T00:56:26Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I’m actually kinda relieved to have a “normal person” show up to confirm my original suspicions–and I suspect you’re right about “the majority of people in this country.” But, honest, you’ve never even _heard_ the name “Sarah Bernhardt?” You’re right to use the scare quotes. It’s not every day I get called a normal person. 😃 (But I do think I’m more “normal” on this particular matter than most Dopers, who tend to be very well educated about such things.) I _think_ I may have heard the name Sarah Bernhardt before. But I’m not sure. I know I’ve heard the last name Bernhardt in association with a celebrity before, but I can’t guarantee that it was her. And I really couldn’t tell you anything about her other than what’s been said in this thread. (And I hope nobody thinks I’m trying to rain on any parade here. I do think some of this is interesting, it’s just that I know virtually nothing about these people and I suspect that most people are closer to me in this regard than to the average Doper.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-bernhardt-edwin-booth-lillian-russell/325273.md?page=3)