# Sarah Palin - McCain's stroke of genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683 "2008-09-02T14:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/21 "2008-09-02T18:18:12Z")
**Diogenes:** > [@](#): > > He’s been in elected office for 11 years, Palin for 5 (regardless of McCain’s attempt to count the PTA as “elected office”). Whatever the merits of your other points, this is incorrect: Palin also served on the Wasilla City Council for several years, and I assume that was an elected position. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/22 "2008-09-02T18:20:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it doesn’t. It just makes it impossible for McCain to try to argue that Obama isn’t qualified. Obama is _far_ more qualified than Palin. > > In addition to undercutting McCain’s own strongest argument (and calling both his judgement and his age into question). Palin has also kicked the slats out the GOP’s ability to tout family values. Her membership in an anti-American, right wing separatist group even takes Trinity Church off the table. her troopergate scandal makes it impossible to talk about ethics or reform. He’s kneecapped himself in so many ways with this choice it’s like an absurdist comedy. Her mini-scandals seem pretty minor. The OP’s scenario isn’t plausible for the reasons already spelled out. No one runs for the Presidency just to hand it off. McCain is quirky, no question. I think too he is also a bit like HRC, in that he reasonably could have expected a certain amount of boosterism from the media, but instead, they have left him en masse for BHO. Recall that McCain was, pre-Obama, something of a media darling (by the standards of Republicans). They loved his “maverick” posture and his f-the-conservatives moves like campaign finance, immigration, schlobbing Joe Lieberman. I think that positive reinforcement that he used to get as a “good” Republican conditioned him to zig when conventional wisdom said to zag, just as a routine strategy. Palin is certainly a counter-intuitive move. He’s probably a little at a loss that it was not greeted with the oohs and ahs that he has come to expect for his cute little stunts. One thing I wonder is how McCain, who has drunk deeply of the neocon Kool-Aid, can be confident that Palin will be on board with the Weekly Standard/AEI/PNAC agenda. I guess he’s assuming her utter lack of any experience with foreign policy will allow them to just spoon feed the party-line Richard Perle version of things to her entire (come to think of it, something very similar happened with another governor who lacked experience with or insight into foreign policy). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/23 "2008-09-02T18:20:39Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **Diogenes:** > Whatever the merits of your other points, this is incorrect: Palin also served on the Wasilla City Council for several years, and I assume that was an elected position. I don’t count that as any more relevant than the PTA. Anybody can be own a small town city council. It’s meaningless. Obama had more responsibility and administrative duties as a community organizer. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/24 "2008-09-02T18:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t count that as any more relevant than the PTA. Anybody can be own a small town city council. It’s meaningless. Obama had more responsibility and administrative duties as a community organizer. Nevertheless, you can’t say that it wasn’t elected office. And, therefore, your claim that Obama has eleven years of experience in elected office to Palin’s five is false on its face. Don’t overreach; you make us all look like idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/25 "2008-09-02T18:29:20Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Nevertheless, you can’t say that it wasn’t elected office. And, therefore, your claim that Obama has eleven years of experience in elected office to Palin’s five is false on its face. > > Don’t overreach; you make us all look like idiots. In that case, we have to count Obama’s experience as President of the harvard Law Review as both “executive experience” and “elected office.” There comes a point where the terminology ceases to become meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/26 "2008-09-02T18:33:19Z")
Palin’s jobs as mayor and councilwoman were part-time. In a country where most, if not all, of the other states have enormous budget problems, Alaska doesn’t even need a state sales or income tax, so its governor doesn’t have the same financial problems every other governor has. Her “executive experience” is damn close to worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/27 "2008-09-02T18:34:44Z")
> [@](#): > > In that case, we have to count Obama’s experience as President of the harvard Law Review as both “executive experience” and “elected office.” _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/28 "2008-09-02T18:35:41Z")
Get with the script, people. 1. Republicans pick _fully-vetted_ unqualified and scandal ridden woman for VP 2. They quickly release rumors and facts about her that cannot be ignored 3. Scandal ensues in the media 4. Republicans show signs of support for the poor lady being “persecuted” 5. VP pick tearfully steps down for the good of the party/for her family during convention 6. Republicans castigate left-wing meanies and pick the VP they _really_ wanted all along 7. PROFIT! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/29 "2008-09-02T18:38:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The reason this is a stroke of genius is that it forces the Obama campaign to make the case against Obama. Throughout the primaries, Popeye Legs and the other candidates were claiming that Obama did not have the experience or accomplishments to be president. Obama’s campaign kept trying to change the subject to how good a speaker he is and how great everyone will feel when there is a black president. Now, with the Palin pick McCain has moved the debate to where he has the best advantage. > Experience is the primary selling point of McCain over Obama. After the initial excitement of the unveiling wears off, the VP makes almost no difference in the election. McCain has been hammering the message that Obama is not ready to lead, now Obama is talking about how important it is for the president to have experience. It is like Burger King getting McDonald’s to run ads about how great flame broiling is. Excellent point, well made. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/30 "2008-09-02T18:40:04Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Nevertheless, you can’t say that it wasn’t elected office. And, therefore, your claim that Obama has eleven years of experience in elected office to Palin’s five is false on its face. > > Don’t overreach; you make us all look like idiots. Don’t worry - **Diogenes** isn’t making _you_ look stupid. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/31 "2008-09-02T18:42:03Z")
[Seriously, I think this clip says it all regarding McCain’s choice of VP.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8u8dBgDxI) Wow. Just… wow. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/32 "2008-09-02T18:44:19Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > The one fault with this assertion is that Obama is more experienced and prepared then Palin is. I don’t know how much debate there is about that issue, but it seems to me Obama is clearly ready and capable to be POTUS. Palin on the other hand is not. > I would not feel comfortable with her being #2 in the line of succession. And you’ve fallen right into the trap. The point is that you’re comparing Obama to Palin. Because that’s where you have at least an argument. But he’s not running against Palin, he’s running against McCain. And ultimately that’s where the comparison will take place. So, feel free to compare his experience to Palin, who you don’t think is at all qualified. Even if you win and Obama ekes her out in experience (which I do not grant), then the Reps get to say “okay, maybe he is slightly more experienced than Palin—the person the Dems hold is completely unqualified. Now let’s compare the person who eked out this victory in experience with McCain.” Fight over. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/33 "2008-09-02T18:45:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And you’ve fallen right into the trap. The point is that you’re comparing Obama to Palin. Because that’s where you have at least an argument. But he’s not running against Palin, he’s running against McCain. And ultimately that’s where the comparison will take place. Obama doesn’t have to make any comparisons at all. McCain is the one who needed this issue. He’s now surrendered it. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/34 "2008-09-02T18:45:56Z")
This idea that Obama has run “nothing but his mouth” is of course complete nonsense. He has run several organizations, including the Harvard Law Review, which while small is not much smaller than the Wasilla city government. Was Director of the Illinois Project Vote, has run a state legislative staff and a US Senate staff and has overseen the huge operation considered to be one of the best run political campaigns in recent memory. Oh yeah, authored two books, actually worked in the State legilature and US Senate to accomlish goals, and was a very successful community organizer. Fellow at the University of Chicago, etc. The right-wing strategy is to repeat something so many times it “must” be true. Well in this case it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/35 "2008-09-02T18:46:08Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Do people actually believe in “executive experience”? I thought it was just a buzzword. They might not believe in it, but they’re using it. It seems that we didn’t start hearing “executive” along with “experience” until Palin was picked. They (conservative pundits) will redefine terms as needed to make Palin look as good as or better than Obama-Biden. Even Obama’s background being raised by a single mother is subject to this. I heard one pundit on NPR today saying that Obama had a privileged background, compared to Palin. She observed that Obama had never “worked with his hands” like Palin has. When the interviewer reminded her that Obama was raised by a single mother, she said Obama was “rich in education”, so Obama’s background is more “privileged” than Palin’s. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/36 "2008-09-02T18:47:14Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > [Seriously, I think this clip says it all regarding McCain’s choice of VP.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8u8dBgDxI) > > Wow. Just… wow. :rolleyes: Hey, nothing wrong with looking for Cindy’s replacement in the wide world of politics. And, you know, it \*is \*getting to be the time to upgrade the ol’ trophy case. Big Mac could do a lot worse than Sarah Palin. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/37 "2008-09-02T18:48:25Z")
It is debatable whether Obama or Palin has more relevant experience, however Obama is running against McCain. If the debate is about change Obama wins, if the debate is about experience McCain wins. Having this debate is a win for McCain. Read your Sun Tzu people. Did Obama choosing Biden mean he has to stop patting himself on the back over having the courage to give a speech opposing the Iraq war? Of course not, and McCain choosing Palin does not mean McCain can not attack Obama for not having any experience or achievements. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/38 "2008-09-02T18:51:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Get with the script, people. > > 1. Republicans pick _fully-vetted_ unqualified and scandal ridden woman for VP > 2. They quickly release rumors and facts about her that cannot be ignored > 3. Scandal ensues in the media > 4. Republicans show signs of support for the poor lady being “persecuted” > 5. VP pick tearfully steps down for the good of the party/for her family during convention > 6. Republicans castigate left-wing meanies and pick the VP they _really_ wanted all along > 7. PROFIT! Except it’s pretty clear she wasn’t fully vetted. There are too many reports filtering back from Alaska that say otherwise. Things like Republican leaders saying “no … no one from the McCain campaign ever contacted me”. Or the fact that the first people to look into the archive of Palin’s hometown paper were from the Obama campaign. The McCain campaign is screwed. All the good press they should be getting from the convention has been drowned out by Gustav and the Palin controversies. But if they dump her the fundamentalist base will go absolutely apeshit. McCain is stuck with her. And like a cinderblock tied around his neck she’s going to drag him steadily down, down, down. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/39 "2008-09-02T18:54:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Obama doesn’t have to make any comparisons at all. McCain is the one who needed this issue. He’s now surrendered it. You’re right ONLY if her level of experience is not questioned. Once the VP’s experience is questioned and said to be lacking, the 100x enlargement mirror shines right on your golden boy. It’s rather quite brilliant. Oh, and also. If her experience is left off the table, to save Obama the embarrassment of then being compared to McCain, then McCain has a new rallying cry: Change. And he is the one who rightly deserves to use it. It’s double-brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683/40 "2008-09-02T18:55:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And you’ve fallen right into the trap. The point is that you’re comparing Obama to Palin. Because that’s where you have at least an argument. But he’s not running against Palin, he’s running against McCain. And ultimately that’s where the comparison will take place. So, feel free to compare his experience to Palin, who you don’t think is at all qualified. Even if you win and Obama ekes her out in experience (which I do not grant), then the Reps get to say “okay, maybe he is slightly more experienced than Palin—the person the Dems hold is completely unqualified. Now let’s compare the person who eked out this victory in experience with McCain.” > > Fight over. I was responding to a poster with the comparison, Obama doesn’t have to compare himself to anyone, McCain is the one who should have looked at this choice better. The nation doesn’t know Palin, they know Obama and quite frankly, more people like Obama. Everything in this campaign is what you see with your eyes, and the media is sharply questioning Palins record 60 days from the election. That’s not good. NPR is riddled with accusations and judgement calls with people calling in asking “…what the hell was McCain thinking??” I’m not worried about making comparisons with Obama, he’s vetted. This is one huge media cluster fuck for the GOP, and everyone can see it unfolding. The media is all over Palin and Gustav and no one is looking at the convention. Clouded her future is in this election. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-mccains-stroke-of-genius/461683.md?page=3)