# Sarah Palin proven right! Government tricks beautiful young mom; imposes 1st Death Panel Verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888 "2010-04-12T22:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/401 "2010-04-15T22:45:32Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And, if you want to look at it from another perspective, approximate 2.5 milliion people die in America every year. So, if 45,000 people due die from lack of healthcare (in other words, they’d be treated and alive otherwise, which may be a big assumption, I haven’t seen the study), that’s 1.8% of deaths caused by inadequate healthcare. Nearly 1 in 50 is not an insignificant number to me. This. If you just use the yearly percentage rate compared to the overall population, it looks like a tiny number. But when you extrapolate the odds of being a victim of the system over your entire lifetime, it doesn’t look quite so comforting. And then when you look at the odds that somebody you know and love will be affected even if you personally come out unscathed, it’s even worse. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/402 "2010-04-15T22:49:15Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > In summary: the thread title and OP were flat-out lies. Hard to believe it took this many pages to finally get to that point. Most of the people here with a “smidgeon of intellectual honesty” knew that by Page 1, Post 2. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/403 "2010-04-15T23:02:38Z")
I’m struck with wonder at the power of positive rationalization! Sarah Palin wasn’t wrong about the “death panels” because “death panels” doesn’t mean panels that decide about death, it means the cumbersome and inefficient workings of government. So, why didn’t she say so? You got all these people running around talking about “death panels” as “death panels”, but that’s not at all what she meant by “death panels”, and she never said a word about it! Never spoke up and said “Golly, no, that’s not at all what I meant, I was talking about cumbersome government inefficiency, and ‘death panels’ was just a metaphorical device intended to lead you to the wrong conclusion altogether. Which it did” Its like she said “chicken coop” when what she meant was “flannel shirt”, and when everybody thought she meant an abode for smelly, nasty, stupid birds, she didn’t bother to correct them. And even though she didn’t, Starkers knew what she really mean without being told! He simply applied the same telepathy that permits him to read the minds of liberals, peered into her mind (_ewwww_!) and found what she really meant, even though she never told a soul about it! Gasp! In **Starker’s** world, this is reason. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/404 "2010-04-15T23:36:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So you people just aren’t gonna let me get out of here, right? Don’t let the screen door hit you where the Good Lord split you, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/405 "2010-04-16T00:06:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So you people just aren’t gonna let me get out of here, right? You could just give up on defending your bullshit, drop out of this thread, and pop up again in a different thread with different (and yet, oddly familiar - it’s like deja vu all over again) bullshit when you’re all refreshed. We’ll still be here. Take your time. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/406 "2010-04-16T00:06:55Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Here’s an extra credit assignment: Find me one (again ONE!) country with UHC that has NO private health insurance providers. > > I truly don’t know the answer to the first question and I eagerly await your response. The answer to the second question I’ll spoil for you > > The country with UHC that has NO private health insurance providers is… > > none of them. Seriously, what did you think? Every first world country has private health insurance providers. Why would you think it would be any different? Sorry, but Canada doesn’t allow private health insurance, at least not in a way that would compare to US private health insurance. One could argue that there is Blue Cross Blue Shield in Canada, and that you can get “health insurance,” but it’s meant for things like medications, and weird little extra costs that the government doesn’t cover (I think things like massages and physio). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/407 "2010-04-16T00:15:40Z")
Well, there you go then! That PROVES **SA** is right! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/408 "2010-04-16T00:24:10Z")
You want further proof? Just look at all them Yurpeens and people from Canaduh, posting here about how great things are there, health care wise! And we know they aren’t good, we know they’re lying through their beaver-munching teeth, and they’re just so mentally corrupted by socialism they just can’t help it! The Gospel According to **St. Arving** : “If thou hast the Truth, verily, thou needest not the facts!” ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/409 "2010-04-16T00:25:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So you people just aren’t gonna let me get out of here, right? Dropped, denied, it’s all the same result. Once single-payer goes into effect, government cost/benefit analysis and rationaing will eventually require that people be denied life-saving treatment. Anyone with a smidgeon of intellectual honesty knows that. The government can’t provide everything for everyone all the time. Of course, neither can private enterprise. But at least with the private option people can go to other companies or pay for care themselves. Once Big Daddy takes over, it’s him or nothing. You are completely and absolutely mistaken in every single sentence above. What you are describing doesn’t happen, which means anyone with a smidgeon [sic] of intellectual honesty knows the exact opposite. In a system of UHC the cost/benefit analysis doesn’t happen on an individual case by case basis. The point of UHC is to make sure EVERYONE gets the life saving treatment they need. That’s pretty much all there is to it. You act as if one there is UHC everyone will run out and get a bone marrow transplant. If you could learn just one thing today I wish it was that. In UHC, the government isn’t involved with you on an individual basis. The only person responsible for your health care is your doctor. You were also wrong when you said, “pay for care themselves.” This woman COULD NOT pay for it herself because THE HOSPITAL refused her care. **THE HOSPITAL REFUSED HER CARE** The government did everything it was supposed to. It provided her with the social security benefits that she was entitled to, and alerted her to a benefit she was not receiving. It provided her medical coverage while she qualified for Medicaid. It then canceled her Medicaid when she was no longer eligible, which is what it is supposed to do! If you don’t like that she got dropped from Medicaid, than the limits should be raised to something more reasonable. She wasn’t dropped because the procedure was too expensive. Fuck, the government just paid for a year of chemo. It dropped her because she no longer qualified. It wasn’t a cost/benefit decision. There was no death panel. No one looked at her and said, “that procedure is going to cost a lot.” They said, “her income is currently above what is allowed.” Seriously? What the fuck did you think happened? Do you honestly believe that someone in the Medicaid office saw this procedure scheduled, realized the cost, and then called someone in Social Security, and had them offer her more money? What “government” do you think made the decision that this treatment cost too much? One of your problems, is that you realize that private industry is fucked. You are so used to private industry fucking you over, that you think it’s normal. And that when government gets involved, it’s going to fuck you over like private industry. You are wrong. The government doesn’t get to profit when it fucks you over. If an insurance company dropped her, it would have avoided this payout and it’s profits would be higher. The stock price would go up and the execs would get bonuses. And fuck off with that idiotic implication that doctors and nurses are “profiting” for health care. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/410 "2010-04-16T01:10:39Z")
Well, since my serious offer of statistical analysis was ignored, I’d just to point out the following: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So, no, this isn’t about lives needlessly lost through social or medical injustice; it’s about liberal ideology seeking dominance, and once that dominance is acheived, things like wait times and uncaring, unresponsive bureaucracy and people dying by government fiat will all be deemed perfectly reasonable and understandable and still better than the system under which people couldn’t change jobs and one person in 10,000 had to worry about bankruptcy. :rolleyes: Since what the thread is _actually_ about seems endlessly flexible, I’d like to note that even if only one American in 10,000 is actually bankrupted (figure’s accuracy assumed for the purposes of argument), a great many more Americans _worry_ about it. There’s no contradiction - after all, maybe only one American in 10,000 is brutally murdered (figure also assumed), yet violent crime remains a major concern. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/411 "2010-04-16T01:13:04Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Sorry, but Canada doesn’t allow private health insurance, at least not in a way that would compare to US private health insurance. One could argue that there is Blue Cross Blue Shield in Canada, and that you can get “health insurance,” but it’s meant for things like medications, and weird little extra costs that the government doesn’t cover (I think things like massages and physio). I don’t mean to derail the thread on a tangent, but of course health insurance companies in other countries aren’t like the health insurance companies in ours. A health insurance company provides insurance (well, in theory…) but in a country with UHC everyone is already covered. To cover them again for the same services would be redundant. But insurance companies still thrive in those countries by offering services in areas of health care not covered by the government. So it’s different…but the same. The bottom line is that in ANY First World country, if you don’t like what’s being offered by the government you always have the right and ability to purchase what you wish from the free market. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/412 "2010-04-16T01:14:22Z")
Canadians can indeed buy health insurance - for when they travel to countries like the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/413 "2010-04-16T01:25:53Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > So, no, this isn’t about lives needlessly lost through social or medical injustice; it’s about liberal ideology seeking dominance, and once that dominance is acheived, things like wait times and uncaring, unresponsive bureaucracy and people dying by government fiat will all be deemed perfectly reasonable and understandable and still better than the system under which people couldn’t change jobs and one person in 10,000 had to worry about bankruptcy. When talking about what policies to adopt as a nation, I want to do what can be empirically shown to maximize overall happiness and minimize suffering. The only extent to which I care about scoring political points is to the extent that scoring those points works towards that goal. If politicians aren’t serving the best interests of the people, then they can go fuck themselves as far as I’m concerned, regardless of whether they have a (D) or an (R) after their names. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/414 "2010-04-16T01:29:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Canadians can indeed buy health insurance - for when they travel to countries like the U.S. And vice versa, actually. When I went to Ottawa in '07, I bought catastrophic insurance from Blue Cross for the three months before I was eligible for Ontario’s coverage. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/415 "2010-04-16T01:32:38Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > In summary: the thread title and OP were flat-out lies. Hard to believe it took this many pages to finally get to that point. That’s not at all fair. Let’s analyze that title: Even **SA** has conceded that “Government Tricks” is wrong. Everyone with a brain (and even Rand Rover, for Jah’s sake) has noticed that “Sarah Palin Proven Right!” and “Imposes 1st Death Panel Verdict” are BS. “Beautiful” is inherently subjective and therefore should be left out of the analysis. However, the woman in the article is a “Young Mom”! That’s 2/(14-1) = 15.38% (or using SA math 0.1538%) accuracy in just the title. If he kept up that standard in the rest of his OP, he may have set a new personal record. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/416 "2010-04-16T01:36:34Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > “Beautiful” is inherently subjective and therefore should be left out of the analysis. I don’t know why beautiful is relevant to the story. Is it more acceptable to deny care to ugly people? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/417 "2010-04-16T01:46:26Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Is it more acceptable to deny care to ugly people? Why, yes, it is. I thought that was clear from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/418 "2010-04-16T01:49:50Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Is it more acceptable to deny care to ugly people? Yes, when it’s your side doing it. I read that somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/419 "2010-04-16T02:10:25Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I don’t know why beautiful is relevant to the story. Is it more acceptable to deny care to ugly people? Yes… except plastic surgery. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/420 "2010-04-16T02:15:58Z")
Yo mamma so ugly, she walked past a blind man selling pencils, he tried to gouge his ears out! That’s how ugly! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=22)