# Sarah Palin proven right! Government tricks beautiful young mom; imposes 1st Death Panel Verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888 "2010-04-12T22:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/541 "2010-04-19T00:32:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I regard this as victory. Like the banner says, it’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/542 "2010-04-19T00:41:38Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **Starving** , I’d like your opinion on this. > > [How I lost my health insurance at the hairstylist’s](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/7/751100/-How-I-lost-my-health-insurance-at-the-hairstylists) … No pictures, impossible to tell if she’s beautiful enough to live. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/543 "2010-04-19T00:48:01Z")
So upon being presented with proof that when compared to Americans, Canadians live longer, live healthily longer, pay less individually for health care, pay less through our taxes for health care, and overall devote less of our GDP for health care, Starving Artist’s response is to ignore the facts and declare victory. What a display of true ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/544 "2010-04-19T00:50:22Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/545 "2010-04-19T01:35:51Z")
_“…Considero esto como una victoria…”_ General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, from his victory speech after the Battle of San Jacinto ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/546 "2010-04-19T01:46:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No it doesn’t. The idea that we pay less individually is a fiction. Millions and millions of people will be forced to pay into UHC. Tell them that it’s costing them less. Plus there’s no way to prove return on investment. It’s a specious and unprovable meme that people will get back a return on what they’ve paid when the time comes that they need care. Some people will need a lot of care and it will be expensive, while others will require relatively little. Once again you are completely and utterly wrong. Everyone will need care. Everyone is born, and everyone dies, and that right off the bat costs money. Are you really so dumb as to think that a significant portion of the population can go through life requiring “relatively little” care? When I was filling out my taxes this year using Turbotax, towards the end there is an option to say, “see national averages.” The average [turbotax user] had $8000 in medical costs. Maybe that’s just it, you have no experience with the health care industry because you yourself are lucky enough to have never needed medical care. I guess that explains a lot. Or maybe you’re a liar. And that after realizing the article you posted proves that private health care doesn’t work, you are not ranting and raving about liberal taxes. True or false, taxes are the highest they have ever been. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/547 "2010-04-19T02:44:47Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > At what point do think a person’s taxes equal the benefit they get by having the privilege of earning money in this country? Well, according to the Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower in your beloved favorite decade of the 1950’s, that benefit tops out at a marginal federal income tax rate of 91%. However, we modern liberals are somewhat less socialistic in our thinking than good ol’ Ike was, and we generally believe that a top marginal tax rate of less than 50%—possibly less than 40%—is plenty to support a healthy social safety net in this society. And, of course, that top rate would apply only to a very small percentage of taxpayers anyway. (Before you embarrass yourself further in trying to respond to this point, do allow me to remind you that a **marginal** income tax rate is not a tax rate on the **whole** of one’s income. Even if the top marginal rate were as high as 50%, nobody, not even the very richest, would actually be forking over half their income in federal income tax.) > [@Starving Artist](#): > > The people I’ve referred to are not freeloaders. […] I did cast aspersions to at least some degree on people who spend their money on more trivial things and then don’t have money when the time comes to pay for maintaining their health, but even then I didn’t refer to them as freeloaders. Look, moron, when you complain about having to pay into a healthcare system so that “Joe Blow can spend his wages on large screen TVs and furniture and cars and boats and beer and strip clubs and be freed from the need to divert some of them maintaining his or his family’s own good health”, you are clearly implying that you think Joe Blow and his ilk are freeloaders. And it is not dishonesty or lying for me to point out that you and selfish assholes like you are complaining about being deprived of your money to support people you regard as “freeloaders”. Trying to nitpick your way out of that corner by responding that you didn’t explicitly call individual posters, such as **Canadjun** , freeloaders is too pathetic for words. As I’ve asked you before, are you really that dumb or do you just think we are? > [@Starving Artist](#): > > So that leaves what I said: the typical liberal response to disagreement, which is to lie about what they’ve said and call them names. Both of which you’ve been doing in spades. I’ve been doing it in spades **TO YOU** in this Pit thread, you drooling cumdrip, _precisely because my typical liberal response of thoughtful and respectful argument DOES NOT WORK ON MORONS LIKE YOU._ C’mon, **Starving Artist** , have you **ever** seen me treating an intelligent conservative on these boards like **John Mace** or **Martin Hyde** with the contempt I show to you? I would be ashamed to talk like this to any of the conservatives around here who are capable of rational thought and honest argument. Since years of (intermittently) attempting intelligent and courteous discourse with you has clearly had no effect at all in motivating rational thought or honest argument on your part, there’s no reason to go on treating you like anything resembling an honorable opponent. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/548 "2010-04-19T02:56:26Z")
**Starving Artist** , WOW!, The depths of cluelessness that you have sunk to in this thread are SHOCKING (even for you), PLEASE tell me that you do not Vote, Drive or Reproduce. Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/549 "2010-04-19T03:15:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’ve been doing it in spades **TO YOU** in this Pit thread I should clarify, for the benefit of your limited comprehension abilities, that what I admit to doing in this thread is calling you (richly deserved) names. But I haven’t been lying about what you’ve said. Not that that will stop you from falsely accusing me of it. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/550 "2010-04-19T03:27:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You got it. Why should millions of people and their familes be deprived of the benefits of their own earnings simply so that the small minority of people who lack sufficient assets to pay for their own care don’t have to live on welfare? Fuck you are stupid, really really stupid. Do you even live in America? This thread gives me the impression you’re 15. Your comment about “mow lawns” and the one about how some people will need “relatively little” medical care is the kind of think a teenager would say before they realize what the fuck is going on. Did you not read the fucking article you posted? It’s not even about having sufficient funds, a lot of people are not eligible for health insurance. And even if they wanted to pay for treatment on their own, the hospitals won’t let them. So what you said demonstrates that you know nothing about health care in the US. Clearly you’ve never had health insurance, and obviously you’ve never needed (or paid for) medical care. Which again makes me think you’re 15. If you were older you’d know how much the average American spends on health care ($8000) and you would have at some point experienced a parent suffer through an expensive procedure. Which is okay, knowing you are nothing more than an idiotic adolescent makes me feel a bit better since I know you can’t vote. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No it doesn’t. The idea that we pay less individually is a fiction. Millions and millions of people will be forced to pay into UHC. Tell them that it’s costing them less. Plus there’s no way to prove return on investment. It’s a specious and unprovable meme that people will get back a return on what they’ve paid when the time comes that they need care. Do you have any data what so ever to back that up or did you just pull it out of your ass? And if you did pull it out of your ass, how did you get it past your head? Are you aware of something called Medicare? You should look it up and see what it does, and how much it costs per person. There is just a start to show you what kind of expenses you will incur after age 65. And again, you are lying when you said it is an unprovable meme. How many fucking lies are you going to tell in a single thread. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Some people will need a lot of care and it will be expensive, while others will require relatively little. Fuck that is a stupid thing to say. Who the fuck would believe that? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I’m sorry, but but people would live in heathier states now if they were willing to cough up the money needed to maintain it. But the reality is that people will spend their money on things they want and put off or ignore health care concerns in order to do so. Then once they’ve developed a condition that is serious enough or painful enough, they’ll finally break down and go to the doctor. Again, I see no need for people to have to spend huge chunks of money that could otherwise go to benefit themselves or their families just so Joe Blow can spend his wages on large screen TVs and furniture and cars and boats and beer and strip clubs and be freed from the need to divert some of them maintaining his or his family’s own good health. Fuck you are stupid, more lies. Such a beautiful characterization of the people you think you’ll be supporting. What about that beautiful young mother you started us off with? Is she worthy of your hard earned money, do you even earn money? You started this thread because you were angry at the government for tricking her out of a procedure. Shouldn’t you have been happy? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The fact of the matter is that health care is most people’s last concern when it comes to spending the money they make, so why should it be enough of a concern of mine that I would be willing to pay hundreds of dollars of my own money every month in order to provide them with access to care they don’t want to pay for themselves? What fact are you quoting there? Do you have a cite that shows what people’s concerns are? Or by “fact” do you mean “something you made up.” Couldn’t you have at least made up an anecdote so we could have a datum? Why are you still arguing this? Everything you think you know about UHC is wrong. And now, you’ve demonstrated that everything you think you know about US health care is wrong. You don’t even understand taxes. So the fact of the matter is that you are a moron. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/551 "2010-04-19T03:45:43Z")
> [@unclviny](#): > > **Starving Artist** , > WOW!, > The depths of cluelessness that you have sunk to in this thread are SHOCKING (even for you), PLEASE tell me that you do not Vote, Drive or Reproduce. > > Unclviny Well we know he doesn’t drive a riding lawnmower, at least. Personally, I’d love to hear what the OP does for a living. I’m pretty sure from what I’ve seen so far, it isn’t anything in government, medicine or insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/552 "2010-04-19T04:17:50Z")
Starving Artist, you do realize, of course, that if you were in a universal health care country, you would not still be waiting for your brain transplant, for up here the person with the most urgent need gets seen to first. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/553 "2010-04-19T04:47:36Z")
BTW, **Starving Artist** , you never answered my question – if your hypothetical five/six-year-old child came to you and asked how babies were made, what would be your response? ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/554 "2010-04-19T05:39:17Z")
> [@unclviny](#): > > **Starving Artist** , > WOW!, > The depths of cluelessness that you have sunk to in this thread are SHOCKING (even for you), Am I the only one unsurprised? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/555 "2010-04-19T07:40:01Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Am I the only one unsurprised? I, for one, am surprised mainly at the fact that after the idiotic depths plumbed in the OP, there was still so much further down to go. At some point it seems statistically improbable to be so consistently wrong about everything. It’s like getting everything wrong on the SATs, where answering every question randomly without even looking at them would actually be a significant improvement. It’s kind of baffling, really. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/556 "2010-04-19T08:17:47Z")
Its like if ignorance is the absence of fact and information, there is another force, like entropy acts on energy, the Starker Force acts on information, randomizing it into drivel and blather. There was that one time, he went to England, and Steven Hawkings tried to run over his foot? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/557 "2010-04-19T08:48:33Z")
_“'Tis better to dazzle a man with brilliance than to baffle him with bullshit.”_ ~Anonymous Still, given your audience, **luci** , the choice of the lesser route is, if not commendable, at least understandable. ETA: Psst…It’s Hawking. No “s”. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/558 "2010-04-19T11:54:38Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Am I the only one unsurprised? I consider myself akin to those who saw the Beatles in Hamburg or the Doors at the Whiskey a Go Go. I recognized the potential for true greatness in **Starving for Attention** way before anyone else. The stggering stupidity. The unnecessary personal status updates, apparently confusing facebook and the SDMB. The long goodbyes. I’ve been there from the beginning. Yet even I had to pause for a moment to discern whether this OP was a parody of some kind. Now I recognize that it was _that_ moment. The ascendency to true greatness of which hordes of aspirants spend a lifetime only dreaming. **Starving for Attention** has achieved a feat that will live for decades in SDMB lore. What is truly telling is not that **Shodan-bot** is even unable to vomit up a suportive one-liner about the usual suspect liberals, nor that **Bricker** cannot favor us with a selectively biased interpretation of a distracting legal side issue, nor that **curlcoat** won’t even come in to elbow **Starving for Attention** aside for, well, attention. No, in this case, the truly telling sign is that not even **Zoe** can come in with a little off-topic personal support for her message board chum. He is with the stars now. I have a little tear in my eye. Excuse me. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/559 "2010-04-19T13:55:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I think people SHOULD exhaust their own recources before they turn to everyone else for help. Why should people be deprived of hundreds of dollars a month for decades out of their lives - money that could have been spent on nicer homes or automobiles, or food and clothing, or education for their children or vacations in Europe or whatever - simply so that someone in your situation doesn’t have to give up some of their own stuff or borrow against assets or future earnings in order to pay for their own health care? > > This just absolutely does not make sense to me and is all kinds of wrong. It’s destructive to the principle of self-reliance and freedom from government control, and it’s extremely unfair to the people who are forced to pay to finance the peace of mind and asset retention of others with their own hard-earned dollars. He didn’t turn to everyone else for help. He paid insurance and is now using his insurance to cover his medical costs. Isn’t that how your insurance works? Why should he sell his house, raid his kid’s college fun, or lose his retirement savings when he has insurance coverage? Do you exhaust your own resources before drawing against the insurance you’ve paid for? The difference is, his insurance rates are not ‘hundreds of dollars a month’, because he is part of a group that amounts to 32 million people. Surely you understand how the larger the group = smaller premiums. Do you know why that is? Because the risk is spread out over a larger base. The health insurance is not being run for profit, but at cost, like police or fire services. The only government control involved is the same government control that keeps police and fire services operating. There are no death panels. Your doctor decides your access to care based on your need. Not some insurance hack based on profits. You can go to any doctor, and your health insurance is not connected to your job, so you can change jobs too, at will, without losing coverage. The single 32 million strong group negotiates drug prices, hence they are much lower here. There is only one insurer so the nightmare of forms and the paper pushers disappears, saving millions upon millions, that are spent on providing care instead. Everyone has the same coverage. (Just like any waiting room there will always be jerks who think they should get faster access because they were there first, or they are willing to pay more.) No one is sucking at the teat of your tax dollars, everyone pays (much lower rates) and everyone is covered. That you keep saying it, indicates a woeful and, it seems, willful ignorance. He’s paying the same as you. You are not subsidizing his care anymore than you subsidize the car accidents of others by paying your car insurance premium. That’s how insurance works. God you’re stupid. I’m surprised you can dress yourself. You are the very embodiment of everything that’s wrong with your country. Misinformed, unable to learn, and certain of yourself. People as stupid as you are what convinces the rest of the world that America deserves to be in the complete cockup it’s in. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/560 "2010-04-19T14:05:57Z")
Typical government bureaucratic fuck-up. The death panels are supposed to kill the _ugly_ moms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=29)