# Sarah Palin proven right! Government tricks beautiful young mom; imposes 1st Death Panel Verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888 "2010-04-12T22:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/41 "2010-04-12T23:40:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …why wouldn’t they allow her to cancel her son’s disability benefits and reinstate her treatment? No, instead they hide behind red tape and give her the typical government bullshit about how she can’t do that - it’s “too late”. I agree entirely on this point. It _is_ bureaucratic BS, and I hope somebody straightens it for her in time. _Let_ her cut her income back to what it is before, if that’s what she wants to do–what’s necessary for her to receive care as things stand. But I’m not clear on what **Starving Artist** sees as the ideal we should be working toward. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve also said numerous times that I have no problem with programs to assist people who are truly needy. My gripe is with putting the government in charge of everyone’s health care, and largely for the very reasons illustrated by this case. The government does not give a shit about you and will leave you twisting in the wind anytime it suits their purpose to do so, and unlike with private insurance, you have no other choice. Okay, so the government shouldn’t be in charge. Whose “programs to assist people who are truly needy” are these then, the ones you support? This is a sincere question. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/42 "2010-04-12T23:42:53Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > So what’s your problem in this case? The woman makes more money than the cut-off, so she’s not “truly needy”. She doesn’t “make” more money, dumbass. She was offered benefits for her son after six months of treatment and on the cusp of expensive surgery. Those benefits would have the effect of making her ineligible for further treatment, and she was denied the abilty to cancel those benefits in order to continue to receive treatment. So she was tricked into accepting benefits that would cancel her treatment and told “tough shit” when she tried to correct it. There is simply no way you or anyone else can spin this in order to make it fit with your notion of caring and beneficent government care. Naturally however, I don’t expect for a minute that this fact will stop you from trying. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/43 "2010-04-12T23:44:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m pissed that the government went out of its way (something that I’ve never, ever, known of it to do before) to offer this woman benefits that served to disqualify her from receiving the expensive transplant operation she was scheduled soon to receive. And yet the position you adopt on health-care reform makes situations like this INEVITABLE. As long as we ration health care by income level, shit like this will ALWAYS happen. There will always be someone who deserves help who just misses the cut-off, or who gets their coverage canceled at the wrong moment, or who exceeds the lifetime cap. This woman is in dire straits because of YOUR POLITICS. So either OWN the cruelty that is the unavoidable result of your position (I’m sure **Rand Rover** would), or join forces with the people who are trying to fix things. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/44 "2010-04-12T23:45:12Z")
How was she tricked, **Starving Artist**? She was sent a letter that she had to sign and return (and presumably read and look into before doing so). Who forced her to do that? ---
**Author:** ![Torpor\_Beast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@Torpor\_Beast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torpor_Beast)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/45 "2010-04-12T23:47:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My gripe is with putting the government in charge of everyone’s health care, and largely for the very reasons illustrated by this case. The government does not give a shit about you and will leave you twisting in the wind anytime it suits their purpose to do so, and unlike with private insurance, you have no other choice. How would you propose we’d (The rhetorical we. I already get universal coverage, courtesy of [these](http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english.nsf) fine folks, plus an employer-provided optional private insurance) provide universal coverage to all US citizens, using only private insurance companies, while not making it a monopoly? The thing is, the purpose of a government is to provide for it’s citizens. And the purpose of a company is to make profit. The government is answerable to you. And a company to it’s board of directors/investors. Why would you trust the private company more? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/46 "2010-04-12T23:48:49Z")
Well, I can certainly see how she was tricked. Or, to turn it around, if a private company sent her a form to fill out to get a benefit that would just happen to end up saving them a lot of expense to pay for a costly operation, I doubt anyone would be seriously asking ‘how was this a trick??’. What I’m confused about with this whole thing though is this: Isn’t this the kind of thing the reforms are trying to FIX? I mean, they haven’t actually started to take effect yet, so, this whole lash up is still part of the old, fucked up system…no? We don’t know how the new, fucked us system will even handle something like this (do we?) since, afaik, it is still years before this kind of things gets addressed. No? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/47 "2010-04-12T23:49:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > She doesn’t “make” more money, dumbass. She was offered benefits for her son after six months of treatment and on the cusp of expensive surgery. Those benefits would have the effect of making her ineligible for further treatment, and she was denied the abilty to cancel those benefits in order to continue to receive treatment. So she was tricked into accepting benefits that would cancel her treatment and told “tough shit” when she tried to correct it. **There is simply no way you or anyone else can spin this in order to make it fit with your notion of caring and beneficent government care**. > > Naturally however, I don’t expect for a minute that this fact will stop you from trying. No, I think you’ve spun this around so many times yourself that centripetal force has squashed it out of all resemblance to anything in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amber_in_Treasury)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/48 "2010-04-12T23:52:35Z")
**SA,** can you please answer my questions in post 26? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/49 "2010-04-12T23:52:40Z")
> [@Torpor\_Beast](#): > > The thing is, the purpose of a government is to provide for it’s citizens. No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/50 "2010-04-12T23:52:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > She doesn’t “make” more money, dumbass. Getting more money from the government is … uh … “more money”! :rolleyes: What do you want? Do you want Medicare NOT to be means-tested? Personally, I think it’s disgusting that she should be expected to CANCEL benefits for her son in order to make herself sufficiently indigent to deserve our charity. But that’s exactly the sort of institutional cruelty that conservatives like you get off on. We can’t just \*give \*health care to the poor … you want to make sure they \*grovel \*for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/51 "2010-04-13T00:01:36Z")
> [@](#): > > …Social Security officials are also looking into the case to make the surgery happen on Tuesday as had been planned… Last sentence of linked article. Emphasis mine. And I stand by “any critique **elucidator** has levelled at any evil insurance company at its very worst”. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/52 "2010-04-13T00:07:31Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > But I’m not clear on what **Starving Artist** sees as the ideal we should be working toward. I have yet to see one positive idea from Starving Artist to improve _anything_. Not a single one. In fact, I started a thread to solicit any ideas [he might](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557419) have had to improve the country, and he couldn’t come up with jack shit. All he does is complain. I suggest that if he has nothing to add to the discussion other than whining, he and the other opponents of any and all progress should quiet down and let the grown ups in the room try to solve problems. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/53 "2010-04-13T00:08:52Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > But I’m not clear on what **Starving Artist** sees as the ideal we should be working toward. The sick and weak left behind to be eaten by tigers. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Torpor\_Beast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@Torpor\_Beast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torpor_Beast)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/54 "2010-04-13T00:10:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, it isn’t. In the broadest sense it is. Where I’m going with this is that **you** , are the government. You, the woman in your OP, RNATB, Tiger Woods, Der Trihs, Sarah Palin and all the rest of you, are The Government. That’s how democracy works. In essence, when you say that The Government can’t do anything right, you’re saying that **you** just can’t get shit done. The Government is all of you together, making sure you don’t get screwed over. Be that by private companies, individuals, or other governments. Think of it as collective bargaining, in enormous scale. Sometimes you don’t get a deal that gives the best possible benefit to you individually. But it’s helluva lot better than letting faceless people, whose only responsibility is to make profit, lord over your basic sickness and health. As it should be in a capitalist society, nothing prevents you individually from picking and choosing extra coverage after the basics have been taken care of, should some private company offer it. ---
**Author:** ![Torpor\_Beast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@Torpor\_Beast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torpor_Beast)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/55 "2010-04-13T00:11:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The sick and weak left behind to be eaten by tigers. Duh. Unless they’re beautiful, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/56 "2010-04-13T00:17:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, I can certainly see how she was tricked. Or, to turn it around, if a private company sent her a form to fill out to get a benefit that would just happen to end up saving them a lot of expense to pay for a costly operation, I doubt anyone would be seriously asking ‘how was this a trick??’. > > What I’m confused about with this whole thing though is this: Isn’t this the kind of thing the reforms are trying to FIX? I mean, they haven’t actually started to take effect yet, so, this whole lash up is still part of the old, fucked up system…no? We don’t know how the new, fucked us system will even handle something like this (do we?) since, afaik, it is still years before this kind of things gets addressed. No? > > -XT I would say that the two agencies probably don’t cross reference. It’s not like she got the letter from Medicare she got it from Social Security. I’m sure it wasn’t a trick in the sense that the letter she got wasn’t meant to do anything more than get her more benefits. However, that is besides the point that SA is so fucking stupid he’s actually arguing for UHC without understanding it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/57 "2010-04-13T00:23:44Z")
How come when whiny little bitches have nothing substantive to post, they always say, "I don’t have time at the moment… " or somesuch? Like we care what the hell you are (not) doing in your life. Like this is not the internet, and we have no fucking way to verify that you were actually too busy with your fascinating life to prove us all wrong. Why would anyone give a rip about your schedule, unless it’s because you’re over-explaining (a sure sign of lying) and you don’t actually have shit to do, you just want to be a whiny bitch on a message board that demands you back it up. And you don’t got jack. Oh, you don’t have time right now? Ok, honey. You go ahead. We’ll wait for you to devastate us with your reposte and boy you’ll show us. I would post more, but I don’t have time right now since I have to maybe masturbate and then take a nap. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/58 "2010-04-13T00:23:47Z")
> [@Torpor\_Beast](#): > > In the broadest sense it is. Where I’m going with this is that **you** , are the government. You, the woman in your OP, RNATB, Tiger Woods, Der Trihs, Sarah Palin and all the rest of you, are The Government. That’s how democracy works. In essence, when you say that The Government can’t do anything right, you’re saying that **you** just can’t get shit done. You take that back! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Torpor\_Beast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@Torpor\_Beast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torpor_Beast)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/59 "2010-04-13T00:27:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You take that back! :mad: Nuh-Uh! I know all about you! You’re with The Government! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fiona\_Greenlee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@Fiona\_Greenlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiona_Greenlee)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/60 "2010-04-13T00:28:24Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > How was she tricked, **Starving Artist**? She was sent a letter that she had to sign and return (and presumably read and look into before doing so). Who forced her to do that? The same person who prevents him from addressing her responsibility in this mess? She receives government benefits that she had to apply for and that the agencies make crystal clear are based on income. She receives an unsolicted document that gives her _additional income_ as the parent of the minor child and apparently without understanding it (or just maybe talking to her caseworker first) just signs it and returns it without a second thought. **No one forced her to do so** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=4)