# Sarah Palin proven right! Government tricks beautiful young mom; imposes 1st Death Panel Verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888 "2010-04-12T22:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/901 "2010-04-29T21:03:04Z")
> [@algorithm](#): > > Wrong. Well! That certainly settles _that_! Thanks for playing. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/902 "2010-04-29T21:13:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, you know, when in Rome and all that. Still, I don’t generally get insulting with people unless they get insulting with me first. Fine. Now show me any place on this board where I’ve insulted you. Find any post at all so that you could call me “dumbass” and “stupid” in retaliation. Hell, you can look for any post since then, too. You won’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/903 "2010-04-29T21:13:56Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I would rather buy or rent a nice house or apartment of my own. > > On the other hand, I’d rather live in Section 8 subsidised housing than sleep on a steam grate too. Nothing wrong with living in Section 8 subsidized housing. Some years back, we ran into a rough patch, income-wise, and through a stroke of great good fortune, we were able to obtain a Sec. 8 voucher that enabled us to stay in the apartment we were presently living in. As my earnings increased, the subsidy went down, and today I am back to carrying the full rent load. We’ve now been in our home for nearly thirteen years, uninterrupted. “Section 8 subsidized housing” does not necessarily imply substandard living conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/904 "2010-04-29T21:22:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > _“Do not mistake what you assume…”_ > > ~Truman Capote, _Murder By Death_ > > I get news from a great many sources, schmuck. And besides, I already mentioned Limbaugh’s having gotten involved waay back in the early stages of the thread. Remember how I talked about how it suddenly wasn’t “too late” for Diana Smith once Limbaugh picked it up and the issue began gaining lots of publicity? And how Obama was probably screaming for someone’s blood because this happened at the very same time he was trying to convince people the government would actually care about them and take care of them and rock them is its loving arms? > > But all that aside, you know, all these insults are really starting to hurt my widdle feelings. If you keep it up I might turn into a wimp like all you guys and then I’ll be a liberal too. Won’t that be fun! > > Oh, wait…no. My feelings aren’t hurt, either. > > And why do you suppose that is? > > Well, I’d have to say primarily it because anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty…or hell, honesty of any sort…knows I’m clearly not stupid (or a moron, or a knuckkle-dragger, or a mouth-breather or any of the other names you people like to band together and call your betters…but also because **Sam Stone** , **Bricker** , **Scylla** , **Clothahump** , **Shodan** , et. al, get called the very same names the very instant they post something controversial (i.e., failing to toe the liberal hive mind) around here themselves. > > If you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you insult people, you’d be well advised not to reflexively call everyone the same names the moment you hear something you don’t like. I realize this is the tried and true liberal way, but that mostly works only for sound bites and published articles. Here, where the same people are around, and they say things you don’t like but clearly aren’t morons, it only makes you look like morons or dumbasses yourselves when you respond to every. single. thing. you don’t like with the same insults, particularly in the case of the posters mentioned above whose intelligence and superior grasp of the realities of life far surpass those of your own. > > And may I cordially invite all those who feel the best approach is to ignore me to please feel free to do just that. I would like nothing better than to be able to speak my mind around here without virtually everything I say being distorted, lied about, childishly ridiculed, or ignored in favor of some minor semantic or sidebar nitpick. > > And on preview: > > Has it ever occurred to you that the reason I say that is because it’s true? Or would you prefer that I defend or explain having said things that I never said? > > The two major forms of dishonesty around this place are illegitimate cite demands intended soley for the purpose of obfuscation and/or derailment of the main issue at hand; and restating or exaggerating what another poster has said, also in order to obfuscate and/or derail the main point, but also in a childish, scoolyard attempt to raise the ire other posters and/or readers. > > And both of those go on around here all. the. time. > > I only say that because it’s true. People only turn to the government solution when no other way is possible. Would you prefer to live in a Section 8 house or apartment, or buy or rent a nice one on your own? Would you prefer to have the government make your clothing, or would you prefer to but it from people who know what they’re doing and have to make a profit? Would you prefer to buy food grown and distributed by the government or food from your local grocery? Would you prefer a Section 8 house or apartment? Would you like the government in charge of making repairs when something goes wrong in your home? Would you want your car repaired in a shop run by the government? > > I could go on and on for pages, but you get the idea. Government sucks at running things and getting things done, and that’s why I don’t want it in charge of health care. If government wants to take care of people who are virtually indigent and for whom government care is better than nothing, I have no problem with that. But there is absolutely no need for the U.S. government to take over the nation’s health care when 85% are already happy with what they have, and only a small portion of the remaining 15% actually need care that they have no other way of getting. > > And now, having spent more time here than I expected or could really afford today, I must once again bid you adieu. Have fun conspiring to ignore me. It is to laugh. > > Chow. (There’s one for ya, **mack**. ;)) Even if I didn’t believe that passing HCR was the right thing to do (which I do), I would still be glad it passed just because it obviously upsets you so. It entertains me greatly to see you worrying that the sky is falling. You are like a clueless old man who is sitting on the bus and has shit his pants. You almost feel sorry for him until you are forced to catch a whiff of his shit and then pity turns to hate. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/905 "2010-04-29T21:23:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve shown you “evidence” … And that would be the problem “evidence” not evidence. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … why try to force everyone into substandard, government-run Section 8 housing … What does this even fucking mean? Substandard? Do you think they suspend the building codes for Section 8 housing. Do you know anything about the program at all? In fact, if you don’t meet the standards\* set by “Section 8” they won’t allow people receiving it to live in your apartments. Apartments that are legally on the rental market, despite not meeting Section 8 standards! CMC fnord! \*My brother’s house has an attached apartment that he had to make, not insignificant, changes to in order to rent out to Section 8 recipients. So yet again, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/906 "2010-04-29T21:26:01Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I am trying to tap into the liberal hive-mind to determine if SA’s sign-off of ‘Chow’ at 4:14 EDT was indicative of his desire for an early supper or a misunderstanding of Italian. > Any guesses? I predict he might respond that occasionally he’ll post a comment in jest that people will think he means because they’ve so thoroughly fooled themselves into believing he’s an imbecile that they truly think he doesn’t understand that “Ciao” and “Chow” are not the same. He’ll also add that a worthy adversary is especially naive along these lines, having painstakenly corrected him on the different usages of the expressions “rocket science” and “brain surgery,” subsequent to his jocularly opining that a certain act didn’t amount to “rocket surgery”, therefore the reference to that worthy adversary occurring at the conclusion of his hallucinatory ejaculation. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/907 "2010-04-29T21:28:29Z")
> [@Mbossa](#): > > Celsius Metric system?! That’s _Canadian_ talk, boy! Honest Americans don’t cotton to that sort of thing! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/908 "2010-04-29T21:30:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Metric system?! That’s _Canadian_ talk, boy! Honest Americans don’t cotton to that sort of thing! Sometimes you have to smack evil on the nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/909 "2010-04-29T21:34:13Z")
_Fighting… back… but… I… can’t… help… myself… the… stupid… is… too… strong…_ > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > \I could go on and on for pages, but you get the idea. Government sucks at running things and getting things done, and that’s why I don’t want it in charge of health care… Oh, tell it to the Marines. Or the Army. Or the Navy. Or the Air Force. Or the Coast Guard. Just a quick counter to your declaration. In point of fact, there are many aspects of our government that are well run and that are quite capable of “getting things done”. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/910 "2010-04-29T21:34:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I get news from a great many sources, schmuck. Let’s see, there is Rush, Coulter, Hannity, Beck… Reminds me of when I was learning to trade stocks, and we’d play “am I diversified?” Let’s see, I have Exxon, Chevron, BP, Transocean. You might consider trying that game with your great many sources. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And may I cordially invite all those who feel the best approach is to ignore me to please feel free to do just that. I would like nothing better than to be able to speak my mind around here without virtually everything I say being distorted, lied about, childishly ridiculed, or ignored in favor of some minor semantic or sidebar nitpick. If you want a mouth piece for your ignorant ramblings, may I suggest you start a blog. [Oh wait, someone already stole your ideas.](http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2010/04/13/evil-insurance-company-drops-coverage-for-mom-with-cancer-right-before-surgery/). This is a message board. If you post stupid shit, you are going to get called on it. You fucked up trying to suggest that the government tricked this woman out of her health care. You fucked up trying to suggest that government denied her treatment when it was the hospital. You continue to say things that are factually incorrect, and people are calling you on it. And after being called on it, you continue to repeat it as if it’s new information. So in addition to being called on it again, we’re also calling you stupid, because it’s a pretty fucking stupid thing to do. We’re on page 19 now, and you’re are STILL repeating the same factually incorrect statements. If we stop calling you on them, you’ll think you made some grand and final argument that convinced us you were in fact right. How many times have you already declared victory? You are not right, you haven’t been right about anything you’ve said. You probably weren’t even listening to Elton John or drinking beer. Rush Limbaugh handed you a cd and a bottle of something yellow and encouraged you to lie for him. The sooner you realize Rush is a performer, and not a journalist, the sooner you’ll be able to post statements that are factually correct. And the sooner we can stop calling you names. Each time you repeat the same factually incorrect statement, we are going to correct you on it, and then add an insult. In between insults were are going to make fun of you and humiliate you. Now it seems you’ve taken to calling something you don’t like “dishonest.” When you post something factually incorrect, it is not “dishonest” of us to correct you. I guess we could say you are being dishonest in your use of the term “dishonest.” We will not sit idly by and allow you to turn this message board into a Bush Style Town Hall Propaganda forum. There are other message boards where you can post this shit surrounded by other morons that will happily applaud. You thought you had a win, you thought this showed Sarah Palin was right and we were wrong. You thought this showed the government denying care. You thought you could post conservative propaganda on what you describe as a liberal leaning message board and not get called on it. You were wrong about that, and you have been wrong about everything else you’ve said about health care. That is why we call you stupid. Or as the saying goes, “facts have a liberal bias.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/911 "2010-04-29T21:43:36Z")
Nice post, **emacknight**. How about next time he opens a Pit thread, you just make that post #2, and save us a crapload of bandwidth? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/912 "2010-04-29T21:44:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Exactly. So why try to force everyone into substandard, government-run Section 8 housing when only a few actually need it? It’s comments like this that make it evidently clear that you don’t understand Section 8 housing. I’m not even talking about how well Section 8 is run. I’m saying you literally don’t get the _concept_ of Section 8 housing. Like it’s some sort of ghetto you’ll confined to in the poor section of town from a government mandated program. It’s not, like, the government divides up the city into various sections and throws all the scum into section 8. And "forc(ing) everyone into substandard, government-run Section 8 housing " makes no actual sense given what Section 8 is because doing it for everyone would kinda defeat the purpose. I’m not going to explain Section 8 to you. 19 pages have shown that you don’t listen to what people are saying. But if you really want to learn, here’s a good starting place: > **[Section 8 (housing)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing))** > > Section 8 of the Housing Act of 1937 (42 U.S.C. § 1437f), commonly known as Section 8, provides rental housing assistance to low-income households in the United States by paying private landlords on behalf of these tenants. Approximately 68% of this assistance benefits seniors, people in families with children, and individuals with disabilities. The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) oversees Section 8 programs, which are administered locally by public housing agencies (PHAs).\[2 and here [http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/](http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/913 "2010-04-29T21:45:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, tell it to the Marines. > > Or the Army. > > Or the Navy. > > Or the Air Force. > > Or the Coast Guard. and who all enjoy… wait for it… access to government paid health care! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/914 "2010-04-29T21:47:48Z")
**Enderw24** , I was gonna do a little “chopped liver” whine (see post 903), but then it occurred to me that the OP probably has me on “ignore” too (just as well, imo). ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/915 "2010-04-29T21:49:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve shown you “evidence” on occasion, some of it in this very thread, and as far as I can recall you’ve never accepted it. Does that make you stupid too? > > Is the criterion for intelligence around here that one should unquestioningly accept liberal evidence and unquestioningly reject conservative evidence? You have yet to show us “conservative evidence.” You showed us a conservative opinion piece. We are all waiting for you to show us any sort of evidence. Although, it also seems like you unquestioningly reject liberal evidence. And further to that you reject people you consider “liberal” or “young” because their opinions don’t matter. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Exactly. So why try to force everyone into substandard, government-run Section 8 housing when only a few actually need it? Holy fucking shit in can, you are STILL spouting the same dishonest bullshit. Stop fucking doing that you knuckle dragging buffoon. Single payer UHC is NOT section 8 housing. It is a very modest single dwelling home, where the number of rooms, and the size of the land, is based on the urgency of the medical condition. I am not calling you an idiot because you are conservative and I am a liberal. I am calling you an idiot because I am a conservative and you are a fucking moron that continues to say the same stupid thing over and over and over. You are factually incorrect by equating UHC to section 8 housing. That is NOT how it works. Stop being dishonest. How ever told you that, who ever suggested that you should trumpet that expression lied to you. You are their puppet. You have their hand so far up your ass you can probably smell the shit on their fingers. UHC is not substandard or mediocre. That is why life expectancy, infant mortality, and all sorts of other metrics put it ahead of American style health care (and it costs less). ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/916 "2010-04-29T22:00:42Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It’s comments like this that make it evidently clear that you don’t understand Section 8 housing. I’m not even talking about how well Section 8 is run. I’m saying you literally don’t get the _concept_ of Section 8 housing. Like it’s some sort of ghetto you’ll confined to in the poor section of town from a government mandated program. It’s not, like, the government divides up the city into various sections and throws all the scum into section 8. And "forc(ing) everyone into substandard, government-run Section 8 housing " makes no actual sense given what Section 8 is because doing it for everyone would kinda defeat the purpose. > > I’m not going to explain Section 8 to you. 19 pages have shown that you don’t listen to what people are saying. > But if you really want to learn, here’s a good starting place: > > [Section 8 (housing) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)) > and here [http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/](http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/) On review, I think he’s confused it with the French movie [District 13](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1247640/). On further review, a lot of his incoherent ramblings appear to resemble dementia. Suddenly I feel really bad correcting him. I work with a lot of developmentally challenged volunteers, just yesterday one of them very politely and enthusiastically explained how the world was going to end in 2012, that {mumbles} was going to ride in on a white horse, and some other nonsense. We opted not to correct him, and instead reminded him that his bus was going to arrive soon, and that he could help himself to a cookie on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/917 "2010-04-29T22:10:58Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It’s comments like this that make it evidently clear that you don’t understand Section 8 housing. I’m not even talking about how well Section 8 is run. I’m saying you literally don’t get the _concept_ of Section 8 housing. Once again, he went through a lot of trouble building a strawman, only to have it fall on him. Seriously, you need to start with a good wide base, then build up from there. Don’t make it too top heavy. And what ever you do don’t include topics that you are completely unfamiliar with. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/918 "2010-04-29T22:11:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well! That certainly settles _that_! > > Thanks for playing. :rolleyes: Well, you were just making shit up, I figured it was kosher. Show me a trainwreck like this thread where **Sam Stone** gets criticism from _everyone_ repeatedly piled on merely because he is conservative, and I’ll retract my assertion that you’re wrong. You can’t though, because you’re the only whiny conservative primadonna on the board, so you’re the only one who gets treated this way. And you’ll never understand that it’s _your_ goddamn behavior that results in trainwrecks like this one. Despite your insistence that liberals are just mean to conservatives simply because they are conservative, there’s plenty of empirical evidence (right now, even!) in GD that proves you wrong. I’ve seen no less than a dozen threads in the past week featuring participation from **Shodan** , **Bricker** and **Sam Stone** where, amazingly enough, they **don’t** get 18 pages of shit piled on top of them. Why is that? **No other conservative** on the board receives the amount of grief you do. Take a minute and reflect on why that is. It’s your fucking fault. And you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/919 "2010-04-29T23:40:43Z")
For me, its the nostalgia. Conservatives talk in canned phrases that they’ve been recycling for so long, they expect that they form a bedrock of agreed truths, from which foundaton all argument must depend. For favorite, “government is inefficient”. Stated baldy, as a fundamental fact of nature, like the Laws of Thermodynamics. There is a discrete quality of “government”, it is the way that all governments are the same. Monarchical government may appear to be vastly different from representative democracy, but they are identical in one respect: they are inefficient, by their very nature. We are not told why. That’s the thing with dogma: no why, only is. But, you know, what if its not true? What if there is not really any such separate class of activity, distinct and discrete, that is “government”? Or what if it has no pre-determined qualities, but is dependent entirely on circumstance? Or, for instance, the people who compose it. And their motivations. And government is always less efficient than business? There’s a lot of energy expended in business, to be sure. Lot of resources burned to produce that energy, both human and physical. And history shows that once it gets good and going, every once in a while it stuffs a hand grenade up its butt and sets itself on fire. As a paragon of efficiency, that seems a mite thin. Me, I don’t much care how big the government is, so long as we own it and it is responsive to our will, and not the other way around. But thats more a question of justice than efficiency. And if I must choose, it will be justice. But I don’t really think we have to choose. Clever monkey want bad enough, clever monkey make. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888/920 "2010-04-30T00:20:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Exactly. So why try to force everyone into substandard, government-run Section 8 housing when only a few actually need it? You know, if you guys wanted the public option, you should have spoken up earlier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-proven-right-government-tricks-beautiful-young-mom-imposes-1st-death-panel-verdict/535888.md?page=47)